The Greatest Ever...

[streety]

There are many questions that are hard to answer..
Q. Who is the greatest footballer ever?

Q. Who is the greatest team ever?

Q. If you could create a player with abilities taken from other players. Who and what would they be?

This is the thread to talk about each others views on who the greatest are. We have argued many a time down the pub about this.

So to start with I will post a question and we can all converse about it. After a couple of week I will take everyones results and we will have a forum winner. I will then post another question. It is not limited to football but it is a good place to start.

This weeks question...

Who is the greatest footballer ever?

Discuss...

[PJ]

who is the greatest footballer ever?

simple question pele

[streety]

Personally I disagree. The best player that I have ever seen is Zidane. I think he is a more complete player than Pele. He has won trophies in many countries and scored goals in majot cup finals. I would make George Best a close second.

[AngryPaul]

There is a lot to consider and I think it is hard to comapre the footballers of 'yesteryear' to those of today. We had the main superstars of the game today (mainly from Real)
* Beckham
* Zidane
* Henry
* Figo (a few years ago)
* Ronaldo
* Ronaldinho
* Roberto Carlos
* Van Nistelrooy :rolleyes: [/United fan]

But we also have to consider the older generation of genuises like:
* Pele
* Eusebio
* Bobby Moore
* Bobby Charlton
* George Best
* Diego Maradona
* Johan Cruyff

However, even with the likes of these lads I still tend to look towards the classic 'galacticos' of Madrid and a little known Hungarian who was bossing the footballing world around. I am talking bout the World Cup winning Fenerc Puskas. His strike partner at Real was Alfredo Di Stefano. They achieved no less than 9 European cups together and in one final played at Hampden Park, Glasgow (1960) - they scored no less than SEVEN goals betwwen them (Puskas x4, Di Stefano x3) Truely the greatest

Fenerc Puskas and Alfredo Di Stefano

[streety]

Di Stefano was an amazing player. I have watched some old real matches and they looked amazing. I think they had a bloke on the wing called "Gento" or something. He was brilliant too.

I remember once seeing a programme on "Who is the Greatest player" and they said that Di Stefano was much better than Pele.
*raises eyebrows*

[Cap'n Zola]

As a Chelsea fan and a Zola fanatic; I'd have to say....

Diego Maradona


He was the mentor of Gianfranco Zola at Napoli and truly is the greatest technical player that's ever lived...ever!

Of course, as AP has pointed out...there's also the other greats like Pele, Eusebio, Johan Cruyff and I'd agree with Ronaldo and Zidane being on the list...

It seems that everyone has forgotten about a certain Danish player...Michael Laudrup...I was speaking to my friends about him the other week and they were like...
"....:confused:....You mean, Brian Ladrup, right?"

Brian Laudrup was great but had nothing on his bro.

Also - Marco van Bastin was truly a great. :notworthy

[AngryPaul]

Originally posted by Cap'n Zola
Also - Marco van Bastin was truly a great. :notworthy Seconded

I also think players Rivaldo, Romario, Bebeto, Roberto Baggio, Rossi, Gordon Banks also can be included but some of the ones I had mentioned before obviously come above these players.

Also people have overlooked the second most influencial player in the 1970's Brazil side

Jarzinho :notworthy

[edit] and another one we have overlooked:

George Weah

[i-am-the-eggman]

I think youll have to add Maldini to the list.

Who would you consider to be the best ever keeper (as none have been spotted on here)

Edit - Banksie would be my bet

[streety]

Yeah there have ^^ Gordon Banks
I thought I was the one asking the questions... :rolleyes:

-Edit-
Don't forget to put who you think is the best in your post.

[Cap'n Zola]

In the past 10 years I'd have to say Peter Schmeichel (bugger sp) and Gianluigi Buffon but they both made/make quite a few mistakes, which you can't not expect though.

I used to play in goals and know what it feels like. No one remebers unless you make, like a somersaulting, backflipping, cart-wheeling diving save or something. :(

[i-am-the-eggman]

not even that (also a keeper myself) anyone still remember the name of that keeper (mexican?) who saved a shot with the "scorpion kick"? i cant:nana:

Schmiechel would be a good bet but he came out too much (for corners etc) and got caught out so many times with it,

[Cap'n Zola]

Originally posted by AngryPaul
George Weah

Bugger. Forgot about him!

George Weah, AC Milan mainly, had a loan season at Chelsea before leaving for some club in the UAE (United Arab Emirates).

He won FIFA player of the year in 1995, deservedly...
None of my mates have a parakeet's wing's idea of who he is...
Truly great...

[streety]

Schmiechel was the best ever! Even though I am a kopite I would have to say that this man was a true giant of a keeper.

There have been some other great keepers.
Ray Clemance
Gordon Banks
Lev Yashin
Sepp Maier
Jose Chilavert

-Edit-
The scorpion kick was performed by Colombian kepper Rene Higita (sp?)

On the subject of George Weah. He only did well in Italy. You can't really say that he is among the best ever let alone in Serie A.

[AngryPaul]

Originally posted by Streety
On the subject of George Weah. He only did well in Italy. You can't really say that he is among the best ever let alone in Serie A. He is more in the category with the Romario's, Rossi's and Rivaldo's. He still own the FIFA World Player of the Year award though.

*I remember that scorpion kick - closest Jamie Redknapp ever got to an international goal.*

[streety]

Leave my Jamie alone...
The whistle had already gone anyways :D

[AngryPaul]

Originally posted by Streety
Leave my Jamie alone...
The whistle had already gone anyways :D Actually was glad to see him score against Arsenal - used to like him :D

Puskas!!

[Dr S]

the greatest player ever in my opinion has to be Diego Maradona
.

Of today however I'm going with Henery

[PJ]

Originally posted by AngryPaul
There is a lot to consider and I think it is hard to comapre the footballers of 'yesteryear' to those of today. We had the main superstars of the game today (mainly from Real)
* Beckham
* Zidane
* Henry
* Figo (a few years ago)
* Ronaldo
* Ronaldinho
* Roberto Carlos
* Van Nistelrooy :rolleyes: [/United fan]

But we also have to consider the older generation of genuises like:
* Pele
* Eusebio
* Bobby Moore
* Bobby Charlton
* George Best
* Diego Maradona
* Johan Cruyff

However, even with the likes of these lads I still tend to look towards the classic 'galacticos' of Madrid and a little known Hungarian who was bossing the footballing world around. I am talking bout the World Cup winning Fenerc Puskas. His strike partner at Real was Alfredo Di Stefano. They achieved no less than 9 European cups together and in one final played at Hampden Park, Glasgow (1960) - they scored no less than SEVEN goals betwwen them (Puskas x4, Di Stefano x3) Truely the greatest

Fenerc Puskas and Alfredo Di Stefano

what about croif???

[AngryPaul]

Originally posted by AngryPaul
* Pele
* Eusebio
* Bobby Moore
* Bobby Charlton
* George Best
* Diego Maradona
* Johan Cruyff
Ummmmmm...... there? :rolleyes:

[PJ]

oh yeah sorry forgot how to spell it so i didnt realise

[AngryPaul]

Have people even heard of the genius that is Fenerc Puskas? :rolleyes:

[Sketch]

Van Nistelrooy is shite, he just scores tap ins!

Maradona was good, but theres no striker currently bette r tha Herny in his current form, he can create a goal from anything.

[AngryPaul]

Originally posted by AngryPaul
* Van Nistelrooy :rolleyes: [/United fan]My point was I put him in there becase I am a United fan! Does noone understand me?

Henry - at his current form - is the best player in Europe - if not the world!

And it doesnt really matter how they are scored, its that they are scored, so Van Nistelrooy is far from pap!

[jonffm]

I agree with that. Henry is superhuman. He just makes it all look so easy while he's weaving through three or four defenders.

When we play France...we're screwed. I don't think our defence is good enough to handle him.

[Cap'n Zola]

You lot have a great defence though. Terry, Campbell, Cole and Carragher...though it is Henry....

Henrys good but Maradona is still the greatest techinical player ever. Anyone seen that goal? You know....the one where he takes on everyone and scores with a stormer of a finish! Same game as the H.O.G (Hand Of God).

Hand of God, eh? Though it is blatant cheating, still very impressive to pull it off infront of, what? 50,000+ people.

I've tried this in games and it's not exactly the easiest thing to pull-off without being caught! Though I have done it successfully in an official league game without getting any trouble, it's still a great achievement. Takes a cunning and great games-manship to pull it off!

[jonffm]

I dont think we can be that bitter about it. We would have done it to the argentinians, so I don't really care.

Maradona was an amazing player, its a real pity hes turned into an alcholic druggie.

[PJ]

van nistelroy intresting subject, as today i was telling the lads at the end of the city and united match joey barton walked other to him and with my great lip reading skills joey said "sorry lad but your crap"

[streety]

Originally posted by AngryPaul
Have people even heard of the genius that is Fenerc Puskas? :rolleyes:
Yes!
He was an amazing player! A little on the fat side but still good.
http://www.icons.com/images/fantasy/puskas.jpg

[seaempty]

Talking of fat midfielders who were great...

Matt Le Tissier! :D

[AngryPaul]

Originally posted by Streety
Yes!
He was an amazing player! A little on the fat side but still good.
But he was great in the days when skill ran the game, not fitness ;)

Le Tissier was a great club footbaler, shite international, although IMO he wasnt given enough chances for England. Scored some of the Premiership's greatest goals!! :eek:

[seaempty]

Le Tiss wasn't really given a fair chance, but in his appearance in the England B team, he got a hat trick.

He prolly should have moved clubs.

[BlueberryMuffin]

Pele. simple.

[streety]

Originally posted by BlueberryMuffin
Pele. simple.
Why? Please explain your answer...

[PJ]

Originally posted by Streety
Why? Please explain your answer...

ill take this one BM i said that because you have players like zidane and henry who can score and can take it around anyone but pele can do that and has a cross and free kick as good as beckhams henry cant cross and zidane cant take free kicks.

p.s. i typed this well i was pissed.

[jonffm]

No. For his day, Pele might, and I mean MIGHT have been better. However, he's not a better player. If you took Pele in his prime and stuck him in the modern day game, he would be a fairly average/good player. Yes, he was good but the game has evolved so much that to become a huge player, you basically have to be superhuman in both fitness and skill. Plus the defenders where not anywhere near the standard of todays players. Its the same thing as tennis. In the 80's, there where some class acts, but if you stuck em in the modern game, they wouldn't even get a point.
I think its mainly because sports used to be about entertaining the crowds, while now its compleatly focused on ability.

So Pele, in his day, great player, but compared to todays standards, not all that great.

[streety]

Henry can't cross... Who takes corners for Arsenal?
And Zidane takes a mean free kick. He doesn't get a look in at Real cos' they have Carlos, Beckham and Figo.

Pele wasn't as great as people make him out to be. Most people these days haven't seen him play and are just going on everybody elses view. It's like if you asked people who the greatest boxer was, they would say Ali without even thinking. They might not even know anything about the sport but just go with that answer because he is one of the most well known players.

If you matched up "pound for pound" all the footballers then Pele wouldn't come out on top.

[PJ]

p.s. i typed this well i was pissed.

id like to point out this

[streety]

I will have to take everybodies greatest player vote then I can ask the next question. :D

This question will end in 2 days.

PS> Being pissed is not an excuse.

[jonffm]

I ahvent even voted yet.

Henry I say.

[Dingbat]

Henry, if I haven't already said.

I have NEVER seen a more talented player, with the exception of a few games in which 'good' players displayed 'excellence'. Henry is consistently a brilliant player.

[PJ]

Ill vote henry no pele no henry I know ill vote.............................................. ...........Zidane

[gxfu]

Henry is very good.

But I might not know what I'm talking about since I'm in North America.

[streety]

So it has come to that time. I will announce who you have all voted to be the greatest footballer of all time.

After calculating all the results, the winner with 4 votes is...
THIERRY HENRY!!

And the other nominations...
Deigo Maradona - 2 votes
Pele - 2 votes
Zinedine Zidane - 1 vote
Fenerc Puskas - 1 vote

The next question is...

Who is the greatest football team ever?

Discuss.

[AngryPaul]

Brazil 1970

Reason: Won the World Cup at a stroll. Played some of the worlds greatest football with Pele and Jarzinho at their peaks! :D

[PJ]

Man Utd 1997

[Shave]

i would say the Liverpool of the 80's where they actually won some stuff:D

[streety]

I am going to have to agree with Shane.
Our teams of the 70s and 80s under Shankly and Paisley are the best ever. Imagine a team winning the league just using 14 players... We did it! We played some of the most attractive football and were the most feared team in the world.
Our honours for the 70s and 80s...
11 League Titles - 1972-73, 1975-76, 1976-77, 1978-79, 1979-80, 1981-82, 1982-83, 1983-84, 1985-86, 1987-88, 1989-90
3 FA Cups - 1973-74, 1985-86, 1988-89
4 League Cups - 1980-81, 1981-82, 1982-83, 1983-84
4 European Cups - 1976-77, 1977-78, 1980-81, 1983-84
2 Uefa Cups - 1972-73, 1975-76
1 European Super Cup - 1977
1 World Super Cup - 1985-86

I don't think any team will ever come close to this again. I admit that Arsenal's record this season is impressive but it doesn't compare to what Liverpool achieved. YNWA

[AngryPaul]

Originally posted by Peej
Man Utd 1997 Why? We only won the Premiership and that was it! We played good football but I somehow fail to see why they would qualify as the best team in the world EVER!

*Oddly that came from a Man City fan :eek:*

[PJ]

Id say them because even if they "only" won the premiership they played great football and was great to watch. well I only see main highlights on sky one and other stuff. but ill change my mind and go for

the winner up to now Liverpool of the 80's when they had super rob.

[streety]

Originally posted by Peej
but ill change my mind and go for the winner up to now Liverpool of the 80's when they had super rob.
Rob who?

[PJ]

Rob who!!!!:evil: Fowler

[PJ]

sorry to double post but liverpool of the 90s because robbie fowler was there in the 90's

[streety]

His lordship didn't join us til 92....

*EDIT*
Just seen your post :D
Our 70's and 80's team was much better than out 90s team. In the 90's we didn't really win much.

[PJ]

you didnt win much but with a class player like that they deserve to qualifie

[el_diablo5711]

have we forgotten Freddy Adu? im going to watch him play in person twice this year...

OWEN
BECKHAM
KAHN (goalkeepers cant be forgotten either :))
RONALDO
ZIDANE
ROBERTO CARLOS
BRIAN McBRIDE
TIM HOWARD
THEIRRY HENRY

Liverpool is the best team (coming from a l'pool fan ;))

[streety]

Originally posted by el_diablo5711
have we forgotten Freddy Adu? im going to watch him play in person twice this year...

OWEN
BECKHAM
KAHN (goalkeepers cant be forgotten either :))
RONALDO
ZIDANE
ROBERTO CARLOS
BRIAN McBRIDE
TIM HOWARD
THEIRRY HENRY

Liverpool is the best team (coming from a l'pool fan ;))
I don't know how you can put Freddy Adu, McBride & Howard in this list for best players ever...

The Liverpool thing I can understand.

[StevenArnoldi]

What about Tottenham in there glory days, yes they may be a pile of steaming crap currently but there honors are still quite impressive.

Football League Champions 1950-51, 1960-61.
F.A. Cup Winners 1900-01, 1920-21, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1966-67, 1980-81, 1981-82, 1990-91.
Football League Cup Winners 1970-71, 1972-73, 1998-99
European Cup-Winners' Cup Winners 1962-63.
UEFA Cup Winners 1971-72, 1983-84.
Football League Division Two Champions 1919-20, 1949-50.
Southern League Champions 1899-1900.
Western League Champions 1903-04.
London League Premier Division Champions 1902-03.
Football League South 'C' Division Champions 1939-40.
Football League South Champions 1943-44, 1944-45.
Southern District Charity Cup Winners 1901-02, 1904-05 (joint), 1906-07.
London Challenge Cup Winners 1910-11, 1928-29.
F.A.Charity Shield Winners 1920-21, 1951-52, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1967-68 (joint), 1981-82 (joint), 1991-92 (joint).
Dewar Shield Winners 1901-02, 1933-34, 1934-35.
Anglo-Italian League Cup-Winners 1971-72.
Norwich Charity Cup Winners 1919-20.
Norwich Hospital Charity Cup Winners 1946-47,
1949-50 (joint).
Ipswich Hospital Charity Cup Winners 1951-52 (joint).
Costa Del Sol Tournament Winners 1965, 1966.
Nolia Cup (Sweden) Winners 1977.
Japan Cup Winners 1979.
Sun International Challenge Trophy (Swaziland) Winners 1983.

No as impressive as liverpool i must say though, but still in the top 5 i think.

[Dingbat]

Rangers? We've won the most championships in the world...

even if it's kind of easy these days...

[streety]

It's funny when you list these as honours
Norwich Charity Cup Winners 1919-20.
Norwich Hospital Charity Cup Winners 1946-47,
1949-50 (joint).
Ipswich Hospital Charity Cup Winners 1951-52 (joint).
Costa Del Sol Tournament Winners 1965, 1966.
Nolia Cup (Sweden) Winners 1977.
Japan Cup Winners 1979.
Sun International Challenge Trophy (Swaziland) Winners 1983.

[Pringle]

Blackburn Rovers are England most succesful town, they're the only team to win a trophy in all three centuries of football in England and they play in a lovely kit.

[streety]

Originally posted by Pringle
Blackburn Rovers are England most succesful town, they're the only team to win a trophy in all three centuries of football in England and they play in a lovely kit.
I don't think that Blackburn should be anywhere near the best team ever list... I have got a mate who's a season ticket holder and I have been a couple of times.

They're nothing special! They remind me of Burnley...

[StevenArnoldi]

To be fair though, did win the prem... and manage to get relegated from it..i mean ..unless Man Utd or Arsenal get bombed i doubt there be going down anytime soon..

[Pringle]

Originally posted by Streety
I don't think that Blackburn should be anywhere near the best team ever list... I have got a mate who's a season ticket holder and I have been a couple of times.

They're nothing special! They remind me of Burnley...

Whyyyyyy iiiii augthaaaaaaaaaa :mad:

I was only joking anyway, i know we're shit, but we've got alot of stats to make us feel better :)

[streety]

Originally posted by Pringle
Whyyyyyy iiiii augthaaaaaaaaaa :mad:

I was only joking anyway, i know we're shit, but we've got alot of stats to make us feel better :)
I was only messing too cos' I knew that it would wind you up.
"COME ON YOU BURN!!"

Back on topic... What is everyone's choice for the best team ever?

[Pringle]

90's of Milan and Ajax?

[PJ]

ILL GO FOR 80S LIVERRPOOL

[Pringle]

Originally posted by Peej
ILL GO FOR 80S LIVERRPOOL

Liverpool fan by any chance? ;)

[PJ]

Originally posted by Pringle
Liverpool fan by any chance? ;)

How dare you evil evil you must die (CITY FAN)

[Pringle]

Originally posted by Peej
How dare you evil evil you must die (CITY FAN)

:D Apologies, i knew it was one or the other with your custom title.

[PJ]

Apoligie exepted but never accuse me of anything like that again or you must be shot and banned from this thread ever again hahahahaha sorry i get a bit crazy now and again.

[Pringle]

Just think about being a Blackburn fan and you'll understand why i'm so stupid.

[Nuclear Spoon]

The best team ever is the Spurs team that beat Atletico Madrid 5-1 in the UEFA Cup final ages ago.

[Jazzy]

AC Milan of late 80's - mid 90's, won pretty much everything

Ajax of the 70's, winning 3 European cups back to back to back is impressive whatever year it is

Liverpool of the 80's, again won pretty much everything but in more style than the 70's maybe ??

I think i'd go with the Milan team, i think that team influences alot of today's coaches.

[Bloopo]

FULHAM and BOBBY MOORE

[AngryPaul]

Originally posted by thetrooper
FULHAMUmm.... I would ask what year, but I know I would severly dissagree the statement whatever the year :eek:

[streety]

Its been a while but I will announce who you have all voted to be the greatest team of all time.

After calculating all the results, the winner with 3 votes is...
LIVERPOOL 1980's!!

And the other nominations...
Milan 90's - 2 votes
Brazil 1970 - 1 vote
Man Utd 1997 - 1 vote
Liverpool 1970's - 1 vote
Spurs - 1 vote
Liverpool - 1 vote
Rangers - 1 vote
Blackburn - 1 vote
Fulham - 1 vote
Ajax 90's - 1 vote

We will now build the ultimate dream team...

Who is the greatest goalkeeper ever?

Discuss.

[Leonidas]

Andy Goram. Was an outstanding shot stopper, and all round goalkeeper. Was also slightly mental, which I believed helped. Was cursed by old Celtic manager Tommy Burns for "being the death of me" after so many outstanding displays in the Rangers goal gave Rangers the points in Old Firm games where Celtic bettered Rangers.

[Explosivo]

greatest goal keeper i would have to say (considering ive only been alive 14yrs) is Peter Smikle (sorry if i spelt it wrong i generally cant spell)

I thought he was what gave man utd the edge when they were so dominate, and i think he won Denmark that Euro championship they won

[Pringle]

Brad Friedel

edit: The best i've seen in the flesh anyway. Not many have met his standards in the modern game (Apart from big Pete)

[dogincognito]

Originally posted by YYYEEEAAAHHH
greatest goal keeper i would have to say (considering ive only been alive 14yrs) is Peter Smikle (sorry if i spelt it wrong i generally cant spell)

I thought he was what gave man utd the edge when they were so dominate, and i think he won Denmark that Euro championship they won

Peter Schmeichel? id have to say hes the best ive seen to, me bening only 17 :shock:

[Dingbat]

Andy Goram.

An absolute legend for both Scotland and the mighty Gers. Pretty much what Leonidas said.

[Explosivo]

Originally posted by dogincognito
Peter Schmeichel? id have to say hes the best ive seen to, me bening only 17 :shock:

yeah thats it, he was the guy who kept Man Utd winning those Fa cups and Premiships, when he left they didnt look quite as strong, he gave them 9 or 12 extra points

[streety]

I would have to agree that Peter Schmeichel is the best keeper ever. That is hard to say being a Liverpool fan but he helped them win matches and the Danes winning the Euro's.

[Nuclear Spoon]

So many goalkeepers....Paul Robinson..brilliant reflexes...:ninja:

[Ouroboros]

Lev Yashin, the Black Octopus.

[streety]

With the new Dream Team thread started I thought I would bump my old thread :ninja:
There is still time to vote for the Greatest Goalkeeper ever... I will total up the votes at the end of the week.

[dogincognito]

Lev Yashin, the Black Octopus.

He's said to be the best keeper ever but not many have seen him play, and there's not many videos about.... my vote is still Schmeichal btw :p

[streety]

I think that is most peoples votes. I will post the result tomorrow and you can all start voting on a left back.