SunFlower
06-11-2003, 04:57 PM
Hello all,
I remember a thread similar to this where people talked about how they got sex education. Eg from their mother / school / friends. To recall: the common thought was that schooleducation was good but most of the times way to late. Some people already learned from their parents (very well done parents) most however learned from friends and reading / watching stuff secretly.
Now I am reading a lot of literature on human mate choice these days and stumbled also through a more popular science book. In this book there was a small part called: Teaching that sex is taboo
Here is the text:
In our society, sex is taboo from birth to the mid-teens--don't play with yourself, don't use "dirty" (sexual) words, don't read "filthy" (sexual) books or see R-rated movies, don't have sex until you are older and in love. But when you decide to have sex, you are supposed to immediately function perfectly, i.e. the virginal male is supposed to instantly be a wonderful, considerate lover and the virginal female immediately aware of what to do and how to be orgasmic. What foolish expectations (under those conditions). Everyone knows it can't work that way if young people aren't taught about sex or are taught that sex is bad. Yet, starting with infants, hands are removed from the genitalia. At age 4 or 5 we are still being told not to touch ourselves "down there." Weinrich (1987) gives a delightful example of this prolonged early sex training:
Mother sees her 4-year-old rubbing his penis through his pants and asks, "What are you doing?" (She knows what he is doing! But, yet, she asks.)
The boy replies, "Nothing." (He knows what he was doing! But even at four, he knows to deny his actions.)
Mother totally ignores his lie and denial, saying, "Well, stop it!"
The boy indirectly admits the truth by responding, "Okay" and, with little apparent reaction, goes back to his play.
This interaction might occur in any home but notice the lack of frank, overt, explicit communication here. The boy has already learned and is over-learning that rubbing his penis in front of mom is so awful, at least in mom's eyes, that it is unspeakable. They totally avoid discussing why he is touching his penis or how good it feels. Mom doesn't admit she has done it privately. Mother doesn't make it clear that other people--including her--might be upset by his openly pleasuring himself in front of them and, thus, he shouldn't do it publicly, but it is fine to do it alone. Instead, this little 4-year-old boy is forced to figure out on his own these subtle, confused or mixed messages from mom (or dad). Actually, even though he stops rubbing himself, we can't be sure what his interpretation of the interaction really will be. Perhaps he will think: rubbing my penis is a bad thing to do. Or he may say to himself: it's okay, if I don't let anyone see me. Or, perhaps: mom (and other women) thinks my penis is disgusting. Or, maybe: I'm bad and do nasty, weird things that other boys don't do. Taboos and silence create secrets--sometimes delightful secrets, sometimes disturbing secrets. A little honest talk would be helpful.
I found this very interesting. I can see myself behaving like that mother. Perhabs my mother behaved that way with me. I do not know I cannot recall. Maybe I should ask her. I do know that I grew up with a healthy sexattitude that allow me to have a very nice sexlife, right from the beginning. I did not suffer from shame or whatever. However I do now some friends (buys and girls) that do. So how did that happen? Were we different spoken to by our parents or is maybe our basic selfimage different?
Anyway I found this an interesting text, made me think about something I otherwise wouldn't have thought about and I like to take it with me when I migth have children one day.
So since this is in discussion: do people recognize this? From having children themselves or as a person who was influenced (positive / negative) by the way their parents told them to behave?! I find it a pity I do not remember so much myself, I guess it wasn't a big deal then.
Now I do think: what is the rigth way to approach it? Probably as they say: say the truth \o/
I remember a thread similar to this where people talked about how they got sex education. Eg from their mother / school / friends. To recall: the common thought was that schooleducation was good but most of the times way to late. Some people already learned from their parents (very well done parents) most however learned from friends and reading / watching stuff secretly.
Now I am reading a lot of literature on human mate choice these days and stumbled also through a more popular science book. In this book there was a small part called: Teaching that sex is taboo
Here is the text:
In our society, sex is taboo from birth to the mid-teens--don't play with yourself, don't use "dirty" (sexual) words, don't read "filthy" (sexual) books or see R-rated movies, don't have sex until you are older and in love. But when you decide to have sex, you are supposed to immediately function perfectly, i.e. the virginal male is supposed to instantly be a wonderful, considerate lover and the virginal female immediately aware of what to do and how to be orgasmic. What foolish expectations (under those conditions). Everyone knows it can't work that way if young people aren't taught about sex or are taught that sex is bad. Yet, starting with infants, hands are removed from the genitalia. At age 4 or 5 we are still being told not to touch ourselves "down there." Weinrich (1987) gives a delightful example of this prolonged early sex training:
Mother sees her 4-year-old rubbing his penis through his pants and asks, "What are you doing?" (She knows what he is doing! But, yet, she asks.)
The boy replies, "Nothing." (He knows what he was doing! But even at four, he knows to deny his actions.)
Mother totally ignores his lie and denial, saying, "Well, stop it!"
The boy indirectly admits the truth by responding, "Okay" and, with little apparent reaction, goes back to his play.
This interaction might occur in any home but notice the lack of frank, overt, explicit communication here. The boy has already learned and is over-learning that rubbing his penis in front of mom is so awful, at least in mom's eyes, that it is unspeakable. They totally avoid discussing why he is touching his penis or how good it feels. Mom doesn't admit she has done it privately. Mother doesn't make it clear that other people--including her--might be upset by his openly pleasuring himself in front of them and, thus, he shouldn't do it publicly, but it is fine to do it alone. Instead, this little 4-year-old boy is forced to figure out on his own these subtle, confused or mixed messages from mom (or dad). Actually, even though he stops rubbing himself, we can't be sure what his interpretation of the interaction really will be. Perhaps he will think: rubbing my penis is a bad thing to do. Or he may say to himself: it's okay, if I don't let anyone see me. Or, perhaps: mom (and other women) thinks my penis is disgusting. Or, maybe: I'm bad and do nasty, weird things that other boys don't do. Taboos and silence create secrets--sometimes delightful secrets, sometimes disturbing secrets. A little honest talk would be helpful.
I found this very interesting. I can see myself behaving like that mother. Perhabs my mother behaved that way with me. I do not know I cannot recall. Maybe I should ask her. I do know that I grew up with a healthy sexattitude that allow me to have a very nice sexlife, right from the beginning. I did not suffer from shame or whatever. However I do now some friends (buys and girls) that do. So how did that happen? Were we different spoken to by our parents or is maybe our basic selfimage different?
Anyway I found this an interesting text, made me think about something I otherwise wouldn't have thought about and I like to take it with me when I migth have children one day.
So since this is in discussion: do people recognize this? From having children themselves or as a person who was influenced (positive / negative) by the way their parents told them to behave?! I find it a pity I do not remember so much myself, I guess it wasn't a big deal then.
Now I do think: what is the rigth way to approach it? Probably as they say: say the truth \o/