REAL music

[Digga]

Ok, i though this was supposed to be a section about music, but i only see poo. Here's some real music for you:

anything by...

Sigur Ros, mogwai, led zeppelin, kinesis, System of a Down, anti-flag, sex pistols, ramones, polyphonic spree.

If you do not have stairway to heaven by led zeppelin you cannot call yourself a music fan. Anyway, onto hiphop. I love rjd2's song ghostwriter, and recommend that along with pretty much anything by jurassic 5.

AFI's song sing the sorrow is good and melodic and emotional and loud and stuff,and violent delights album is good for a punky kinda laugh. I think thats most of it. Right, i think it's time for you to all slag me off for my music taste now. Yay.

[Anti - Squirrel]

Originally posted by Digga
violent delights album is good for a punky kinda laugh.

As much of a laugh as they are, I'm afraid I just have no respect for them. They're from Bristol (I think) and not too long ago, they did a tour of Bristol schools. At these gigs, they were handing out flyers that contained offensive material (in the hopes of creating a media uproar, presumably) however, when nothing happened, one of the members resorted to phoning one of the schools, posing as a parent, claiming to be on the PTA.

When the School checked their record to find no such name on the PTA, they got in ciontact with a small local newspaper who managed to trace the phone call back to the member's Mobile.

What did they get for their trouble? a 100 word article on page 37 of the Bristol Observer.

Lamest... Publicity Stunt... Ever.

Sorry. I needed a good rant.

[Sloth]

Originally posted by Digga
If you do not have stairway to heaven by led zeppelin you cannot call yourself a music fan. Its funny you say that... One of my friends who plays guitar... would pluck that tune... and like clockwork i would point to "the sign"...

if you don't get the joke here is a google searched image...
http://www.mediocreconartist.com/images/sloth/wayne3.gif

i don't have stairway but i don't need to... i live in midwestern america... here we have a station who plays it 24/7... i think or so it seems...:p

[qwoozy]

this statement is excluding led zepplin:

HEY SLOTH, HOWS THAT STUFF YOU LISTEN TO, WHATS IT CALLED.... YELLING?

[Sloth]

Originally posted by qwoozy
this statement is excluding led zepplin:

HEY SLOTH, HOWS THAT STUFF YOU LISTEN TO, WHATS IT CALLED.... YELLING? explain what you're getting at...

[Digga]

Originally posted by Sloth
Its funny you say that... One of my friends who plays guitar... would pluck that tune... and like clockwork i would point to "the sign"...

no stairway to heaven? DENIED!

anyway, you have radiostations that play it 24/7? you lucky bastards. I barely ever hear ANYTHING led zep on the radio, let alone multiple times in a week. Wish i lived in america now, apart from the entire capitalism thing :P

[Sloth]

Originally posted by Digga
Wish i lived in america now, apart from the entire capitalism thing :P oh... its not so bad... you just have to be lazy... oh yeah and an arsehole!:D

oh, yes... led zep and others that would now be considered "classic rock" is also the anthems to the midwestern culture (don't take this as an insult...we midwesterners are not what they say we are... sure most of us say "warsh", not including me, but we are generally good fellows... or not and i'm just in denial)... most local cover bands play them atleast...

edit: ok so my grammar is bad and i can't spell... but i think it is mostly my fault...

[PoofBird]

oooh,

i remember the days when Diggeh was allergic to anything that closely resembled the hippetyhop...

wb!

[bufo]

Originally posted by PoofBird
oooh,

i remember the days when Diggeh was allergic to anything that closely resembled the hippetyhop...

wb!

well, I guess you've never listened to RJD2 have you? This is music that can also be enjoyed by people that don't like hiphop. Ghostwriter, Smoke and Mirrors, Good times roll (pt.1 & 2) and Chicken bone circuit are all songs that everyone with a decent taste in music can enjoy

[FrEd]

Rock rock rock rock 'n roll High School :rawk: :p

[FLYBUYF1]

real music you say? well i could only refer you fist to QUeens of the Stone Age. :nana: :nana: :nana: I love them to death. just pure rock. Rage against the machine is allways tops too. System of a down are mad ass. metallica are gods in their own level. Foo fighters are also damn damn fine.

i could go on for a while. I think ills top now. :)

PS QUEENS OF THE STONE AGE RULE!!!!!!!!!!

(announced today for Australia in January. I HOPE SO BAD that they go to the Big Day Out again! (2 years in a row) also metallica will be there. either way, I get to see them again!!!!) :nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :twisted:

[cadex]

Originally posted by bufo
well, I guess you've never listened to RJD2 have you? This is music that can also be enjoyed by people that don't like hiphop. Ghostwriter, Smoke and Mirrors, Good times roll (pt.1 & 2) and Chicken bone circuit are all songs that everyone with a decent taste in music can enjoy


listen to this man, he speaks the truth.


also, he doesnt use lots of annoying smilies.


(smilies don't help you get your message accross, nor do they help you to be taken seriously)

[PoofBird]

Oh, I know Rjd2,
i know my shizniz

i am a dj shadow/boards of canada fan as well....

[Rhaeven]

Real music? Pah.

The only properly talented band you mentioned there was Led Zeppelin, and they are pretty mediocre.

REAL music is the bands that can play their instruments like gods, not just barely enough to sound ok like most.

Try, Dragonforce, Gamma Ray, Helloween, Blind Guardian, Elvenking, Edguy, (some) Megadeth, Hammerfall. There are more but I can't be bothered to list.

I doubt many of you heard of any of these bands but you guys who like rock, check em out. Should change your outlook on 'real music'

Particually check out 'Valley of the Damned' by Dragonforce and 'Rebellion in Dreamland' by Gamma Ray. It's teh OMG I tell thee.

[PoofBird]

teh OMG eh?

well, I think I'll manage without that.

[Rhaeven]

You're going to ignore a decent music recommendation because I said 'teh OMG'?

I am not a fucking script kiddie or an AOLer, I know full well what I'm doing with a computer, and phrases such as LOLZ!!!111 and teh are used to take the piss or as sarcastic comments.

Jesus christ man.

[PoofBird]

Originally posted by Rhaeven
LOLZ!!!111 and teh are used to take the piss or as sarcastic comments.


yet you don't recognize sarcasm in someone elses post?

;)


I think the whole subject of real music can be considered with mild sarcasm...

[Rhaeven]

heh, sorry. Just the last forum I posted on regularly was full of self righteous dicks who really would ignore someone for posting something with that kind of sarcastic comment in it.

no offense intended man, sorry.

[Digga]

lol rhaven, you like megadeth and hammerfall? Theyrre like grim reaper. and in the words of beavis...

"OH NO, IT'S GRIM REAPER. OH GOD. DAMMIT!"

I have heard some gamma ray, and they sounded like cheesy electronic pop, not rock gods, and the only megadeth song i ever liked was a tout la monde.so YES i do class my stuff as real music. and your stuff as pap. AND I GAVE REASONS AS WHY YOURS IS PAP. So you can give reasons, or suck my balls.

And remember kiddies, if beavis & butthead says it sucks, chances are, it sucks. Apart from pantera, who they like :/

[queenofself]

what about rancid? i dont particularly adore them but promised a friend id go with him to see them last night & i havent thrown myself around like that since i was about 15. twas much fun

[Seraph]

I dont think there IS such thing as 'Real Music'... and if there is, 'Real Music' is simply just an opinion of your own.

Real music involves instruments, and people... tastes are another story. :)

I like alot of what people have said is 'Real Music,' but 'Real Music' is only a blunt term, it can be broken down into alot of categories... and therefore these arguments are a bit silly.
:nana:

[Mrs. Stabby]

I don't agree with any of the artists/bands you've listed...:rolleyes:

[Rhaeven]

Ok, this discussion makes more sense if we say good music instead of real music, aye?

And Beavis and Butthead, whilst funny, are supposed to be cheesy metalheads and don't listen to much good metal really.

GAMMA RAY? ELECTRONIC POP? What kind of fucking Gamma Ray are you listening to? Download that particular song i recommended in the last post and you will find yourself VERY wrong.

And the only music I actually dissed was St.Anger which I gave decent reasons for. Give me a band you like and if I dislike I'll give reasons as to why it's 'pap'.

[Obscurious]

Well I can certainly see the favored music type in here ;). Kind of funny, of the first list of "REAL" music, Sigur Ros and Mogwai were listed at the beginning, but nobody's mentioned them. If you don't listen to either bands you're REALLY missing out (and yes I am imposing my tastes on you without remorse!) :D

[Beef Magic]

Originally posted by Digga
Ok, i though this was supposed to be a section about music, but i only see poo. Here's some real music for you:

anything by...

Sigur Ros, mogwai, led zeppelin, kinesis, System of a Down, anti-flag, sex pistols, ramones, polyphonic spree.

If you do not have stairway to heaven by led zeppelin you cannot call yourself a music fan. Anyway, onto hiphop. I love rjd2's song ghostwriter, and recommend that along with pretty much anything by jurassic 5.

AFI's song sing the sorrow is good and melodic and emotional and loud and stuff,and violent delights album is good for a punky kinda laugh. I think thats most of it. Right, i think it's time for you to all slag me off for my music taste now. Yay.

TIT

[cadex]

Originally posted by Beef Magic
TIT


stop trolling BM.


dont think we havn't noticed your abusive and offensive comments throughout the forum.


this is an official warning.

[Shimmy]

Sigur Ros, mogwai, led zeppelin, kinesis, SYSTEM OF A DOWN, anti-flag, sex pistols, ramones, polyphonic spree.


SYSTEM RRUULLEZZ

[Ferret Pie]

i think it depends when you were born

[Beef Magic]

Originally posted by cadex
stop trolling BM.


dont think we havn't noticed your abusive and offensive comments throughout the forum.


this is an official warning.

Sorry son.

But despite the fact you did an offensive thing to me in the old forums, and i know your a mod, but aren't we all equal.


Despite the fact his post was saying that his bands were BETERERE than others, the tit-ness factor was high.

All the bands we listen to isn't really music is it? Surely people like Bach and Mozart would be REAL music. System Of A Down would have Beethoven spinning in his grave.

[ike]

as far as i'm concerned, REAL bands, are bands that play instruments and write their own music, and can play it live with no backing tracks or miming.

you can't determine "REAL MUSIC" by whether you like it or not, that's just close-mindedness.

i'm not a big fan of, say, The Beatles, or The Who, or any of that kinda music, it's not really my bag, (i can listen to it, and most of the songs are good, but i wouldn't listen to it by choice) but i'd never, ever say that it wasn't real music.

hell, even Good Charlotte, i don't like them very much, but they actually play instruments.. which is more than can be said for Busted or something - which is why i find it funny when people compare GC to Busted and box them in the same little 'group'.
Busted mime.. with guitars, they don't play them live, they have backing tracks - they're not a real band at all, they're just a poppy boy band like N'sync, but hidden behind a "punk" look.

as for stuff like Hip Hop, i can't actually stand what i've heard of it, but i'm not gonna say "its pap" just because I don't like it.
but, i wouldn't consider it "real music" because - as far as i know - it's just made using computers and mixing decks, and so it can't be played live, as it's all just pre-recorded stuff.
'course i don't really know enough about the rappy stuff to know for sure if any of these hip hoppers play instruments live, but i'm guessing the majority don't.

as for the bubblegum 'pop idol' type stuff, there's no way that can be considered real music in any way shape or form.

[cadex]

Originally posted by Beef Magic
Despite the fact his post was saying that his bands were BETERERE than others, the tit-ness factor was high.


Originally posted by Beef Magic
in some order

- Placebo
- Radiohead
- SikTh
- At The Drive-In
- Audioslave
- Raging Speedhorn
- Nick Cave And The Bad Seeds
- Rage Against The Machine
- Muse
- Miss Black America

Better than you.


you tit

[manny]

My threads are better than your threads because I like mine more.

Therefore, I'm rating this thread a 1.

[cadex]

Originally posted by ike
as for stuff like Hip Hop, i can't actually stand what i've heard of it, but i'm not gonna say "its pap" just because I don't like it.
but, i wouldn't consider it "real music" because - as far as i know - it's just made using computers and mixing decks, and so it can't be played live, as it's all just pre-recorded stuff.
'course i don't really know enough about the rappy stuff to know for sure if any of these hip hoppers play instruments live, but i'm guessing the majority don't.


without computers, most music nowadays cannot be sequenced and tidied up to create a record.
whether or not you choose to use the computer purely to record and arrange a tune with a band, or use synthesizers, drum machines, samplers and audio editing tools to create something new is up to the artist.

each way of creating music takes talent, skill, and most importantly creativeness and inspiration.

if I gave you some software and told you to create some music on a pc, it would take you ages to work out how to use it, let alone get it to make sounds that you want and can actualy use.

all I can say is, go away and listen to some Aphex Twin or Boards of Canada.


as for hip hop, the turntable is an instrument.
live, it can be used to simply mix records, which is a skill in itself, but is nothing compared to scratching.

scratching (well) takes a serious amount of skill and practice.

I wont go on, because I know you will turn around and mern mern mern about how dj's dont play "real" instruments, but try and remember..

anything that makes a sound is an instrument.
if a human can manipulate this sound, live or streamed from a program, then this person is creating music and anyone that says otherwise has a narrowminded view of what music is.

[mpd]

Originally posted by ike
as for stuff like Hip Hop, i can't actually stand what i've heard of it, but i'm not gonna say "its pap" just because I don't like it.
but, i wouldn't consider it "real music" because - as far as i know - it's just made using computers and mixing decks, and so it can't be played live, as it's all just pre-recorded stuff.


Your ignorance is astounding.

A turntable is an instrument.

When i saw DJ shadow live last year he was playing 2 record turntables, 2 cd turntables and an mpc sampler.

He played them all live by himself.

Did all the scratching himself, all the mixing, all the turntable tricks, everything & was it amazing.

Of course you probably don't understand what any of that is or how extremely talented you have to be & how much practise & dedication is needed to beable to be half as good as he is.

He played (his own material) for well over 2 hours & then did an encore for 25 minutes & the visuals were awsome!

Without a doubt one of the best experiences of my life.

It was definately real music

As for computer generated music, well...Originally posted by cadex
At the end of the day the computer is as much an instrument than anything else, as long as it creates sounds.

No one says you have to like hip hop, but you dont have to slag it off, especially when you can't back up your claims.

[Rhaeven]

Turntables are not instruments. They are devices that generate sound, but it's not exactly a tuned instrument is it? You don't have a series of notes you play on it to create a melody/harmony/whatever, you just scratch so it sounds good, which IMO isn't real music. Real music follows the precepts of composing to come up with a good piece involving harmony, melody, proper chord patterns and so on. a bit of scratching and someone talking over it with a beat hardly fits this description of real music (which like I said, is my opinion)

Hip hop sucks for so many reasons.

[mpd]

Well firstly, I think your argument is some what biased, & therefore fundamentaly flawed, as you seem to dissaprove, for whatever reason, of hip hop.

Secondly.. Webster Dictionary[QUOTE]Main Entry: 1in·stru·ment
Pronunciation: 'in(t)-str&-m&nt
Function: noun

1 : a device used to produce music

Now where exactly does it say that the musical instrument has to beable to make a 'series of notes you play on it to create a melody/harmony/whatever' in order to be an instrument?

It doesnt.

Are you going to email Websters & tell them they got it wrong?

No?

So you will have to agree that tecnically all an instrument has to do to be an instrument is produce music.

A turntable produces music.

A turntable is an instrument.


Thirdly

Real music follows the precepts of composing to come up with a good piece involving harmony, melody, proper chord patterns and so on.

Now your ignorance has falted you here again because music can be composed for turntables.

John Carluccio has pioneered his own notation system for transcribing turntable scratches in the same way musical notes are used to describe melodies on traditional instruments (soon, DJ's may be able to sightread and play recognizable scratch patterns).

& yes, some turntable music is improvised.

Some Jazz is improvised.

Are you saying Jazz isnt real music?

I think you'll find performing Jazz & other improvised music takes a great deal more depth & knowledge of music & talent than playing composed music.

& finally...

which IMO isn't real music

Yes, thats right.

Its your opinion.

You can't say that Hip hop sucks, or that a turntable is not an instrument.

You can only accurately claim it to be as 'your opinion'.

& right now your opinion means diddly squat to me.


Too bad your ass got sasssssssssssed!

[Rhaeven]

Jesus fucking christ, I mentioned several times that all that stuff was my own opinions and you people still have to act like I just called your mother a whore or something. Yes I don't like hip hop. Quite frankly, it's the largest pile of bollocks possible. You quoting websters does not change my opinion.

It's an american dictionary anyway. they always get shit wrong. like spellings.

When it comes to music, I'm a traditionalist, and I will never accept the turntable as a real instrument. because its a record player that someone decided to play with.

even if people do become extremly good at it, why bother? it's a terrible, awful scratchy noise which grates on me.

[cadex]

Originally posted by Rhaeven
Jesus fucking christ, I mentioned several times that all that stuff was my own opinions and you people still have to act like I just called your mother a whore or something. Yes I don't like hip hop. Quite frankly, it's the largest pile of bollocks possible. You quoting websters does not change my opinion.

It's an american dictionary anyway. they always get shit wrong. like spellings.

When it comes to music, I'm a traditionalist, and I will never accept the turntable as a real instrument. because its a record player that someone decided to play with.

even if people do become extremly good at it, why bother? it's a terrible, awful scratchy noise which grates on me.


sorry grandad.


your attitude is just like that of an old man, you know that?
I could imagine what the parents of the first youth culture must have thought when they heard rock music after reading your posts.

"why bother playing that electric guitar? it's a terrible, awful whiney noise which grates on me."


and do you know why where defending it?


because we believe in it.

we believe that hip hop is actualy going somewhere, progressing.


like you, we are defending our opinion.

[mpd]

No need to get arsey just cause I proved you wrong.

It's an american dictionary anyway. they always get shit wrong. like spellings.

Your gunna be insulting alot of Americans there.

Fitting in some racist stereotypes while you're here as well.

Well done.

I will never accept the turntable as a real instrument. because its a record player that someone decided to play with.

I don't think anyone who lets their ignorance & pre concieved ideas of what music is get in the way of opening their minds with to new forms of music can ever possibly call themselves a serious music fan.

That would be like me turning round & saying something stupid like 'Im never going to listen to anything with guitars in it cause its not a real instrument' which is obviously bullshit.

You are so narrowminded it is unreal.

The only persone you are restricting of finding new music to enjoy is yourself.

[Rhaeven]

Difference being, rock music is great. Hip-hop/rap/garage are all just throwing music to the four winds and ignoring it all under the guise of 'keeping it real' or whatever shit.

and what the fuck is with calling me 'grandad'? i'm not 'resisting the rise of the decks' or 'trying to bring down this rebellious new music' i just think it sounds like complete shit.

[mpd]

Yeah, your entiled to your opinion.

But I'm allowed to argue on how I think your opinion is wrong wrong wrong

.Originally posted by Rhaeven Difference being, rock music is great. Hip-hop/rap/garage are all just throwing music to the four winds and ignoring it all under the guise of 'keeping it real' or whatever shit.


Now you seriously don't know what your talking about here.

If you think hip hop doesnt go beyond what you see on top of the pops, well your even more of a moron than you were one post ago.

& i think you'll find hip hop, garage & rap are 3 different things & I am only refering to hip hop.

Maybe you should stop shouting your mouth off & slagging off whole cultures you don't know anything about.

Yes, thats right, I said culture. Hip hop is a culture.

Oh & he's calling you grandad cause you're stuck in a narrow minded, old fashioned way of approaching at music.

[cadex]

Originally posted by Rhaeven
Difference being, rock music is great. Hip-hop/rap/garage are all just throwing music to the four winds and ignoring it all under the guise of 'keeping it real' or whatever shit.

hip hop, rap and garage are not the same type of music.

you just think they are, because they are classed as "urban" by the media.
another sign of not thinking for yourself and showing your ignorance.

Originally posted by Rhaeven
and what the fuck is with calling me 'grandad'? i'm not 'resisting the rise of the decks' or 'trying to bring down this rebellious new music' i just think it sounds like complete shit.

I didnt say you were doing anything, its just your attitude is that of an oldman.

moaning about new things that they dont understand.

as for complete shit, I dont think rock music is complete shit, I was brought up on it and still listen to a fair bit.

it's scary that there are so many music fans that are so blind and disrespectful to other genres.

reminds me of another subculture, the townies/kevs/chavs.
only accept their music, dont listen to anything else, badmouth anything they dont like.

[Rhaeven]

are you attempting to liken me to a fucking townie?

This is what pisses me off about people that listen to hip-hop or dance or trance or whatever, they just cannot accept the fact that someone might not like their music. I understand this music all too fucking well, that's why I DON'T LIKE IT. People always just say 'you're to narrow minded.' or 'you just don't understand it'

what, is there something wrong with me because i don't like turntables. and urban music IS the media bullshit. your idea of 'blind and disrespectful' seems to be having my own opinion about your kind of music.

[mpd]

I understand you don't like hip hop.

You've made that very clear.

You don't seem to understand that I'm merely sticking up for the music I am very passionate about.

When you come on here saying 'hip hop is shit' , it offends me & I want to come online & defend the music I love.

Would you not do the same?

Especially if I came on shooting my mouth off about how what genre of music you liked was shit even tho I've probably never heard anything of that genre of music beyond whats on the totps or mtv.

Do you not see my point?

[cadex]

Originally posted by Rhaeven
are you attempting to liken me to a fucking townie?

This is what pisses me off about people that listen to hip-hop or dance or trance or whatever, they just cannot accept the fact that someone might not like their music. I understand this music all too fucking well, that's why I DON'T LIKE IT. People always just say 'you're to narrow minded.' or 'you just don't understand it'

what, is there something wrong with me because i don't like turntables. and urban music IS the media bullshit. your idea of 'blind and disrespectful' seems to be having my own opinion about your kind of music.


we can accept the fact you dont like it, but we also realise that you dont know alot about it.

so before you go merning about how much hip hop sucks and why its not a real type of music, we just think we should let you know a bit about it so you dont go on about something you know nothing about and...oh wait....you already did.

and how do you "understand this music all too fucking well" ?

please name some artists you are basing this on please.

and you can "not like turntables", you cant say that they are not instruments though. we dont like it when people say that, so we try and teach them a little about the instrument they are dismising.

yes, "urban" music was created by the media, but it is merely a tag for genres such as R'n'B, Rap, Grarage, Drum and bass, hip hop and anything else that has routes with the inner city scene.


once again, you entitled to your opinion, just as long as it isn't offensive and ignorant.

if you dont like something, explain why and we will either accept it, or point out the mistakes you have made with your pre-concieved ideas of hip hop.

[Rhaeven]

i'm not basing it off of any artist in particular, i'm basing it off of the genre. the concepts of the genre itself. hip hop and rap is talking quickly to a rhythm and that is a concept that does not appeal to me at all. it doesn't strike me as intelligent or particually skillful.

i understand people like it and I don't, that's fine. but it's when people call me 'ignorant' for not liking their music. they say I don't 'understand' and i'm 'not listening' and that i'd like it if i did. i have a few friends who are REALLY into trance, and everytime i hang with them they make me listen to some and they say 'you're just not listening man' except i listen to it attentively EVERY SINGLE TIME and it's still shit. people seem to think they know everything about me and what i should like.

in conclusion, im not telling you what to like or telling you you're ghey because you like the wrong stuff. i'd just like to not be called ignorant for my own opinion. i dont form opinions without listening first, and im not into whatever i like because its hardcore or trendy amongst rockers, i take my music very seriously

[cadex]

Originally posted by Rhaeven
i'm not basing it off of any artist in particular, i'm basing it off of the genre. the concepts of the genre itself. hip hop and rap is talking quickly to a rhythm and that is a concept that does not appeal to me at all. it doesn't strike me as intelligent or particually skillful.


not all rap is speaking quickly.
not all hip hop has lyrics.

it doesnt strike you as inteligent because most of the stuff you have probably heard is not inteligent.

I can understand you not liking what you hear on tv/mtv, I dont like it either, its pure shit.

you just have to realise that what your hearing there is not a true representation of hip hop, yet you still chose to announce that all hip hop is crap.

that is probably why we are annoyed.

once again, its the "if I said that all rock music is just like Avril Lavgine, you would be pissed off" god, dont know how many times Ive said that now

[mpd]

I've only called you ignorant when I saw it fit to do so, like when you were passing a judgement on something which you didnt understand.

Plus in a heated argument where people are pasionate about the subject & you are insulting it you have got to excpect some insults back.

Like this for example hip hop and rap is talking quickly to a rhythm

Not all hip hop, like cadex said, has rapping.

& for me its not always how they rap, but what they are saying. Mc's like Gift of the Gab are very talented & amaze me with their abilitly to communicate so fluidly.

I would like to know what artists you base your opinions on cause I'm sure not one artist you mention will be one I would call 'hip hop'.

[Beef Magic]

If you like a kind of music, then you can like it.

If someone else doesn't like it, then thats fair enough.

This is an official warning.

[ike]

Originally posted by mpd
Your ignorance is astounding.

A turntable is an instrument.
oh yeah, my post was bulging with ignorance. :rolleyes:

i admitted to not knowing that much about hip hop, i'm not pretending i do.

but, in my opinion a turntable isn't an instrument, more like a tool - and NO, i'm not just saying that because i don't like hip hop, as a few of the rock bands i like use turntables.. but that doesn't convince me into thinking they're actually instruments.

in your opinion they are instruments, good for you.


if i was trying to be ignorant i could've just said "hip hop is crap and takes no talent because i don't like it" - but that's bollocks and wasn't a point i was trying to make.

I can understand you not liking what you hear on tv/mtv, I dont like it either, its pure shit.
i personally consider that statement pretty ignorant - how can you say all music played on TV is "shit" ...just because it's not the kinda stuff you listen to?

[GorillaBearBear]

I like all the bands Digga mentioned, but I think it's unfair to say that "you cannot be considered a music fan" if you don't listen to them. I mean, If you saw my brothers CD collection, you would find it hard to claim he's not a music fan, when he has 500 CDs (and most of them are Real and all), mostly Bob Dylan. But you won't find any Led Zep, any System of a down, no antiflag. It's just stupid to issue a blanket statement like that when the subject is all a matter of opinion.

anyway. I have nothing to fear, I like all those bands :P

[mpd]

Originally posted by Beef Magic
This is an official warning.

When you say things like that & have no authority to back it up it makes you look like a real dip shit.

Originally posted by ike
oh yeah, my post was bulging with ignorance

Yes it was. I'm glad you agree.

but, in my opinion a turntable isn't an instrument, more like a tool - and NO, i'm not just saying that because i don't like hip hop More like a tool?

Wtf is that supposed to mean?

[A tool in manipulating music possibly?

Still sounds like an instrument to me!

You can hate it all you want, but you can't say its not an instrument just because you don't like it.


if i was trying to be ignorant i could've just said "hip hop is crap and takes no talent because i don't like it" - but that's bollocks and wasn't a point i was trying to make.

Oh it wasn't?

Maybe you should have made your opinions more clear.

i personally consider that statement pretty ignorant - how can you say all music played on TV is "shit" ...just because it's not the kinda stuff you listen to?

Now you're being stupid.

Shall I dumb it down for you so you can understand?

In his opinion all the stuff on Tv is shit.

He's heard it. Its on TV of course.

Its in your face all day every day.

He doesnt like it.

He's saying its shit.

Just like you can come along & say hip hop is shit.

But unlike you, he probably has a wider knowledge of the music he's calling shit than you do.

You should all listen to GuerillaBaaBaa's post.

He's a hell of alot younger than you, yet so much more open minded & mature.

[cadex]

Originally posted by Beef Magic
If you like a kind of music, then you can like it.

If someone else doesn't like it, then thats fair enough.

This is an official warning.



people can like what they like, if they don't like something, then fair enough, we've gone through this enough already.

we were just putting out point accross and defending our genre, like anyone of you would.


and knock off the smart ass comments, your pushing your luck, mate.



Originally posted by ike
i personally consider that statement pretty ignorant - how can you say all music played on TV is "shit" ...just because it's not the kinda stuff you listen to?


thats not ignorance, thats my opinion.
the difference between me saying that (most) music on TV is shit, and people saying that Hip Hop is shit is that I have heard the music on TV, and I think it is really crap.
whereas other people have not heard the hip hop that I listen to, yet still decide that all hip hop is crap.

that strikes me as ignorant, as people ignore the music that I listen to, and still bad mouth it. whereas I do watch music on tv now and then, to see what the masses are listening, and some of the tunes might have a something that appeals to me, but most of it is mass produced hip pop, pop rock, etc.

so maybe some people think I jumped to the conclusion that music on tv is crap, but I feel that I am in a position to be able to have my opinion on it.

and again, Im not saying that you can't like music that is played on tv, but I dont like it.

[skoo]

Its like saying Pizza is crap because you dont like anchovies.

Also, if one action film is bad, it doesnt mean ALL action films are bad.

Open your eyes people, you are corporate sheep, you think you are free on a hill top but you are being herded into pens ready for slaughter.

[Beef Magic]

It's an ironic joke you unhumourious slags :(

[skoo]

Stop calling people names, fucknut.

[Rhaeven]

Ok, all my friends who listen to rap and such like the following bands: Eminem, Dr.Dre, NWA, Snoop Dogg, Run DMC, Jurassic 5, Wu-Tang Clan, and some others which I never cared to put names to, after listening to the ones I have, I have concluded that rap is shit.

I've listened to some artists that only sell because of their commercial value, and some that are actually counted as talented and respected rap/whatever artists and I think they're all shit.

Look, I'm a dedicated metal head who is also studying A/S and A/2 level music so I study alot of classical, the turntables hold little to no merit to me.

[mpd]

I wouldn’t consider any of those, except for Jurassic 5, as hip hop, but more mainstream, watered down 'hip-pop'.

If you have listened to what me & other hip hop fans in the hip hop thread (http://www.weebls-stuff.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178&perpage=15&pagenumber=1) see as quality hip hop, & you still think its shit than I would have more respect for your opinion.

& as for the turntables, well, you might not like them, but they take a hell of a lot of talent to play & you should show a little respect for people who master this art form, whether you like it or not.

I'm not too fond of guitars, but I have respect for people who can master it & play it well.

[skoo]

If you cant relate to the lyrics then you aren't going to enjoy the songs. That goes for a lot of genres but rap is based more on vocals than hip hop, which builds from the music up. I am blessed with liking both and I think I'm the only forum user who is making the 'defense' for rap. :eek:

NWA in particular send very strong messages out in their music. Dr Dre is a better producer than an artist IMO. Eminen can rap pretty well for a white guy (uh huh uh huh) but he has got nothing on Tupac who is/was able to convey emotion, images, and (black) politics from the slums of America all the way to the top.

I can understand people who say they dont like Tupacs music, but if they cant *feel* his lyrics then I don't think they are truly listening.

Edit: Just remembered - my sig is a Tupac lyric \o/

[Rhaeven]

"I can understand people who say they dont like Tupacs music, but if they cant *feel* his lyrics then I don't think they are truly listening."

Look, if that's your opinion then you're being as ignorant as I apparently am. Nothing will appeal to everyone and you can't say that someone isn't listening if they don't like or "feel" (what a stupid notion) something. I've heard Tu-Pac, I've listened to it good and hard. And I found it to be shit.

[mpd]

Go skoo :D

My favourite lyric is by Roots Manuva

'Aint no blood in my body, it's liquid soul in my veins'.

That man also has a way with words

Gotta respect that.

It is a gift.

[skoo]

Rhaeven, Did you read the first line of my post?

I'll assume you did, otherwise you wouldnt be so quick to make a wise ass reply ;)

So then, how do you relate to Tupac?

I'll look forward to your thought-provoking reply.

[Rhaeven]

Yeah, you said some people don't get 'it'. But then you just made a broad sweeping statement like 'If you don't feel it then you're not listening.'

SO I replied to that statement.

I'm sorry, but 'Aint no blood in my body, it's liquid soul in my veins'. how does anyone feel that? What the fuck is he going on about? Sounds like self indulgent bullshit to me.

[skoo]

Don't quote me out of context then :)

Give us some of the lyrics from music you like.

[mpd]

You are such a stupid little arrogent fuckwit. :rolleyes:

His point is (from how I see it) is that he sees that a human is more than flesh & blood. They can have soul, compassion, emoitons.

Your not even gunna bother trying to see it from the other persons perspective & loosen up this guard youve built around yourself blocking out anything to do with hip hop or rap.

You might as well stick you r fingers in you r ears & shout 'LA LA LA IM NOT LISTENING' cause your contribution to this discussion would be more useful that way.

& skoo didnt make a broad sweeping statement.

he was making a comment on something which he feels very passionate about & I think it's about time you started showing respect for other peoples opinions.

I think you should sit down & think about what you are going to type before you respond.

[nNski]

This thread reminds me of the need for a language filter.

[skoo]

I do believe Cheechy is working on that.

[Rhaeven]

-ponders- I'll grab a couple

Tortured Soul Asylum -Cradle of Filth

Haunted by this portent
This obsession in my mind
With a city sunk below
Tall cedar groves and graves sublime
Sporting their importance
Marble wings spread to the skies
A vale of dreams that it would seem
The daylights race to leave behind

These visions struck like a furious fuck
Nailing wet lips to cold cemetery walls
Flashes of lust to dust
Splashed across my psychic pall
As hybrid lovers reached their cusp
With final thrusts I saw it all


Valley of the Damned - Dragonforce

On a cold dark winter night hidden by the stormy light
A battle rages for the right for what will become
In the valley of the damned a warrior with sword in hand
Travels fast across the land for freedom he rides

And the sign from the master on high screams aloud and across hear the cry
For the kingdom of fire and ice and the power to be alive
Be strong ride on, carry on through the war
Come along carry on, living for ever more

On the wings of death by the hands of doom
By the darkest light from the darkest moon
Crossing silent seas over mountains high
For we stand as one tonight

On the black wind forever we ride on together
Destroying your evil with freedom our guide
When the master will storm us
He'll stand high before us
Our hearts filled with splendour
Our swords will shine over the light


Yeah. Two songs, two of my favourites. But it really isn't the lyrics that are the focus of most metal, but the music itself. There's no need or intention to have listeners connect with the lyrics, they're just cool lyrics. The Dragonforce guy is a very good singer and Dani Filth..well...it's a different style for sure :)

[mpd]

Oh dear god, your a COF fan :rolleyes:

Now that is tragic!

You said listening to scratching was inaudible & you can expose your ears to that?

Wtf are you on?

[Rhaeven]

I didn't say scratching was inaudible, I said I didn't like it. Dani's voice is different, I like the screaming, it's varied and requires alot of skill. But most people hate it. :)

[mpd]

Originally posted by Rhaeven
But most people hate it. :)

Is that why you like it?

[Rhaeven]

Originally posted by mpd
You are such a stupid little arrogent fuckwit. :rolleyes:

His point is (from how I see it) is that he sees that a human is more than flesh & blood. They can have soul, compassion, emoitons.

Your not even gunna bother trying to see it from the other persons perspective & loosen up this guard youve built around yourself blocking out anything to do with hip hop or rap.

You might as well stick you r fingers in you r ears & shout 'LA LA LA IM NOT LISTENING' cause your contribution to this discussion would be more useful that way.

& skoo didnt make a broad sweeping statement.

he was making a comment on something which he feels very passionate about & I think it's about time you started showing respect for other peoples opinions.

I think you should sit down & think about what you are going to type before you respond.

Are you people listening to a fucking word I'm saying?

I
TRIED
LISTENING
TO
RAP
MUSIC
AND
I
DIDN'T
LIKE
IT.

I haven't set up a wall around myself or anything you dipshit I just DON'T LIKE THE SAME FUCKING MUSIC AS YOU. Get it into your thick skull.

Talking about the soul is all well and good but it's a pretty simplistic thing to be singing about in my opinion. Yes everyone has a soul and compassion. I already knew that thankyouverymuchmrtupac.

I feel very passionate about this too. Where's my fucking respect?

[Rhaeven]

Originally posted by mpd
Is that why you like it?

One step too far, dipshit. None of you people know me or who I am. I like Cradle of Filth because I LIKE IT, it appeals to me. Do you people think I'm a fucking Linkin Park hoodie wearing 12 year old or something? I am very serious about music and study all of it's nuances very carefully and in depth. That may be why I don't like rap. it doesn't bear close inspection.

[skoo]

Originally posted by Rhaeven
One step too far, dipshit. None of you people know me or who I am. I like Cradle of Filth because I LIKE IT, it appeals to me. Do you people think I'm a fucking Linkin Park hoodie wearing 12 year old or something? I am very serious about music and study all of it's nuances very carefully and in depth. That may be why I don't like rap. it doesn't bear close inspection.

You are missing one Nuance my friend, THE LYRICS. Those lyrics you pasted were utter drivel. They have no meaning! He could be reading his shopping list over the music and you'd still like it.

This leads me to the conclusion that you dont listen to the lyrics, just the beat and the general sound the words make.

Tone down the namecalling, and language, too. <-- warning

[Smeagle]

Think calm, peaceful, Soothing


Imagine yourself relaxing on a warm, deserted beach.


ahhhhh.


Breathe in


and out.


Relax all the muscles in your body.


Doesn't that make you feel better?


*sigh*




P.S. don't double post

[Rhaeven]

Originally posted by skoo
You are missing one Nuance my friend, THE LYRICS. Those lyrics you pasted were utter drivel. They have no meaning! He could be reading his shopping list over the music and you'd still like it.

This leads me to the conclusion that you dont listen to the lyrics, just the beat and the general sound the words make.

Tone down the namecalling, and language, too. <-- warning

Sorry bout teh swearing. You people get me all worked up when you talk crap.

Your conclusion is wrong, Skoo. I pay lots of attention to the lyrics because I love them. How can you say they don't mean anything?

Tortured Soul Asylum is the last track on Midian which is basically about a journey to and then a description of Midian (a v.v.bad and nasty place).

Valley of the Damned is about saving the freaking world! It's kinda cheesy but it's real epic. If you're so adamant that one shouldn't put down music before listening, go and download Valley of the Damned now. You've probably got an image of it in your head of being thrashy guitar and loud screaming. Go listen.

[mpd]

Originally posted by Rhaeven

I
TRIED
LISTENING
TO
RAP
MUSIC
AND
I
DIDN'T
LIKE
IT.

I DON'T LIKE THE SAME FUCKING MUSIC AS YOU.

You are the stupidest person I've 'debated' with.

Shall I dumb it down even more & write it in capitals so you finally understand you angsty mong?

Are you ready?

OK, Here we go...

I DONT CARE IF YOU DONT LIKE HIP HOP, BUT IF YOU COME ON HERE & START SLAGGING IT OFF THEM IM GUNNA DEFEND IT UNTIL I'M BLUE IN THE FACE!

D o y o u u n d e r s t a n d?

You won't win because I wont let you.

Hip hop IS REAL MUSIC!

& you call yourself a music fan & you listen to COF?

Your a joke!



Yeah, its not nice when people critisise your music for no valid reason is it?

[skoo]

If you liked those lyrics, you will LOVE these:

The wind blows through my hair,
dark clouds form around me.
I look down to my side,
I see the shadow of who I used to be
Take me by the hand,
together we'll reach for better times
I just made this up,
Lets end on something which vaguely rhymes


Of course, you dont care what the words are, as long as I have 40 guitars going WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH at random times and Im screaming at the top of my voice.

[manny]

woah, someones been raging against the machine.

i'd rather listen to nice things like kittens, than someone yelling at me about death/hell/how much life sucks/the girl next door.

edit: track ive been listening too recently has samples of james brown in, who is probably the happiest man ever.

[Rhaeven]

Originally posted by skoo
If you liked those lyrics, you will LOVE these:

The wind blows through my hair,
dark clouds form around me.
I look down to my side,
I see the shadow of who I used to be
Take me by the hand,
together we'll reach for better times
I just made this up,
Lets end on something which vaguely rhymes


Of course, you dont care what the words are, as long as I have 40 guitars going WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH at random times and Im screaming at the top of my voice.

yeah I can do that too,

I'm wit ma muthaf*ckin bitches in tha hood
gettin' ma freak on while im smokin the chronic, yo
yo fuck wit' ma homies, y'all fuck wit me
and im gonna pop a cap in your ass or something.

I'm well aware that rap is not like that, but it's a generalisation. Your 'rock' lyrics were awful. the Cradle of Filth lyrics are dark, yet poetic and coherent.

[mpd]

Originally posted by Rhaeven
the Cradle of Filth lyrics are dark, yet poetic and coherent.

Originally posted by Rhaeven
Sounds like self indulgent bullshit to me.

[manny]

Only a small small slice of hiphop has lyrics like that btw. Once I thought like you too. I only liked music that my peer group liked, but then one day I chanced apon some of the more underground hiphop and I listen to it now because I like it. Now for the first time, I feel comfortable with my own musical preference and I can talk to other people with the same tastes quite happily, because I feel we are bound together by this great music.

"ghetto-style" hiphop is the stuff you see on mtv cos it sells to angsty teens.

Theres a lot more cultured and mellow styles around if you dig a little deeper, with influences from jazz and blues, a whole world away from "bling bling rap"

[skoo]

As a comparison, I'll post some Tupac lyrics.

Our first date, couldn't wait to see you naked
Touch you in every secret place, I can hardly wait
To bust freely, got you red hot, you so happy to see me
Make the frontpage, primetime live on TV
My girlfriend, maybe forty five but she's still live
One shot make a nigga's heartbeat stop

See, as you started reading it, you were thinking he is talking about his first date with a real woman, but as you read on you realise he is infact refering to his gun as his girlfriend, and for a lot of black youth in America that is what life is like.

No "winged death hiding in shadows", its guns.

Now re-read the lyrics with the knowledge that his girlfriend is a gun and you MAY begin to respect where his words are coming from. Its not some fantasy world with a bloke on horseback and a friggin sword. That is REAL LIFE, not your life, not my life, but it was HIS life.

Now, I could go on and on at you for hours about the motivation behind the lyrics but the fact of the matter is this is a thread about REAL MUSIC and both of the genres we are debating about are "REAL" and "MUSIC", this entire thread is based on semantics and is on the verge of being locked.

[ike]

Originally posted by mpd
More like a tool?

Wtf is that supposed to mean?

[A tool in manipulating music possibly?

Still sounds like an instrument to me!

You can hate it all you want, but you can't say its not an instrument just because you don't like it.
why can't you get it into your brain that it's nothing to do with if i like it or not - as i said before, some of the bands i like use turntables.
yes - they're a tool that 'manipulates' music - they don't actually MAKE music, you can't pick one up and play it or whatever, you have to already have music, and it's used to make the music sound different.


Oh it wasn't?

Maybe you should have made your opinions more clear.
seemed pretty clear to me - care to point out which parts you didn't understand?



Shall I dumb it down for you so you can understand?

In his opinion all the stuff on Tv is shit.

He's heard it. Its on TV of course.

Its in your face all day every day.

He doesnt like it.

He's saying its shit.

Just like you can come along & say hip hop is shit.
but... i never said hip hop was shit, please point out to me where i said "hip hop is shit".
i may have said i didn't like it - that doesn't make it shit.

just like i don't like most of the stuff on TV - but that doesn't make it shit, just 'cause i don't like it personally.

it's a simple concept to grasp:- just because you don't like something, doesn't make it bad.

thats not ignorance, thats my opinion.
my point exactly - my post was my opinion, yet i get accused of being ignorant because someone doesn't agree with my opinion.

[skoo]

Originally posted by ike
hip hop is shit

Couldnt resist :P

[ike]

:(

[mpd]

Originally posted by ike yes - they're a tool that 'manipulates' music - they don't actually MAKE music, you can't pick one up and play it or whatever, you have to already have music, and it's used to make the music sound different.

You can play a turntable.

It does make music.

& no you don't actually have to have records to play it.

I don't have the link, cadex does, but at the DMC champion ships, the winning dj crew (cant remember which year) did a bit in their set where they made beats & music out of scraping & tapping the needles & manipulating other really technical stuff that I don't understand.

It was amazing.

& it proves that the turntable is an instrument.


seemed pretty clear to me - care to point out which parts you didn't understand?

I was clear on what you said. It appeared that it was you who was back tracking on what you had already said & changing what you said.

but... i never said hip hop was shit, please point out to me where i said "hip hop is shit".

skoo’s post ^^


just like i don't like most of the stuff on TV - but that doesn't make it shit, just 'cause i don't like it personally.

Neither does cadex.

His personal opinion is that it is shit.

If he's heard it & doesn’t like it he is entitled to his opinion, & can make an informed decision, which is that it is shit.

it's a simple concept to grasp:- just because you don't like something, doesn't make it bad.

You say that now, but in your previous posts you & Rhaeven seemed to have a different attitude.

If you’re going to discuss something & argue your point, consistency is essential.

You can't shift your opinion around slightly to make it look like you said one thing when it was clear you meant another.

my point exactly - my post was my opinion, yet i get accused of being ignorant because someone doesn't agree with my opinion.

When your opinion is based on blind prejudice & not facts, you are indeed being ignorant.

[Beef Magic]

Dear oh dear.

Ok, bands i like include

- SikTh
- Radiohead
- Raging Speedhorn
- Starsailor

For a rock fan, thats rather diverse.

BUT i also dabble in some rap stuff

for example, Cypress Hill are pretty much solely reponseable for getting me into music.

And i have an Eminem album.

I have also been recommended a lot of rap albums, like Public Enemy, NWA and some others who slip my mind because they were on a PM in the old forums :(

Modern Hip Hop stuff that has the wide generalisation of females as totty, 16 cars, more drugs and guns then all of Columbia - is pretty poor. It's taking away the message of what the whole rap thing was about. It seems that anyone with a basic ryhming ability can sell millions of albums nowdays, while bands who work so hard to write some good songs, tour very hard and use every onuce of energy they have left in their body are unsigned and have little money.


It's just not right is it?

[Anthropod]

Hmm..
As a Metalhead I can't say that I don't agree with Rhaeven.
I havn't heard much of CoF or DragonForce (only a song or two with both bands), but Dark Tranquillity, In Flames, Arch Enemy, Iron Maiden... That is what I call music.
Rap, Hip & hop and everything similar to that is something I can't learn to like, no matter if you slap me with an iron gauntlet untill I bleed on my keyboard and feed my lyrics duting the process.
I've been listening to Metal since I was 8, and even before that I hated Rap and Hip & Hop.
Some things you can't just learn to like, and some genres of music will always sounds more or less like bullshit in your ears.

And calling someone narrowminded for hating a genre of music is stupid, I do hate Rap, Mainstreem music, Hip & Hop, Pop and everything like that with all my heart, does that mean I'm an idiot?
Does that mean I'm narrowminded?

I've been listening to all kinds of music, and as I almost never watch MTV or listen to radio, I havn't only heard that shit.

And now I need to sleep, should have been doing that 1 hour ago.
And as I should have done that my guess would be that about 1/2 of this message is a bit wrong and full of typos.

[mpd]

Yes it is narrow minded to say all hip hop & rap is shit, especially if you've heard only a few artists.

It's like you saying 'I hate all ice cream, because I tasted one flavour & I didn’t like it, so I assume all other flavours or types of ice cream are also shit.'

How will you know they’re all shit unless you try them all out?

You don't.

So if you call them all shit, I can call you ignorant.

If you said a specific artist or band you have heard was shit, than that’s fine, because you actually would have heard of it & have a reason to dislike it & you wouldn’t be assuming you know everything about all music when you actually know diddly squat.

[Beef Magic]

50 Cent is shit.

Nuff said.

[mpd]

See, he can do it?

Why can't the rest of you manage it?

[ike]

Originally posted by mpd
You can play a turntable.

It does make music.

& no you don't actually have to have records to play it.

I don't have the link, cadex does, but at the DMC champion ships, the winning dj crew (cant remember which year) did a bit in their set where they made beats & music out of scraping & tapping the needles & manipulating other really technical stuff that I don't understand.

It was amazing.

& it proves that the turntable is an instrument.
yep. well, y'know, you can bang a tin can with a cucumber and produce some sort of tune.. but i still wouldn't consider 'tin can and cucumber' a proper instrument...
but, whatever - your opinion is it is an instrument, i personally don't think it is.


I was clear on what you said. It appeared that it was you who was back tracking on what you had already said & changing what you said.
i don't think i've changed my opinion on anything in this thread at all actually.


skoo’s post ^^
um, no.. skoo's post was a joke, i never actually said that. ¬¬


You can't shift your opinion around slightly to make it look like you said one thing when it was clear you meant another.
again i'll ask - actually show me where you think i've "shifted my opinion", until then, stop accusing me of things if you can't back them up.


When your opinion is based on blind prejudice & not facts, you are indeed being ignorant.
blind prejudice? what..? me saying "i don't like hip hop" or me saying "just because you don't like something, doesn't make it shit" ..?

[mpd]

Originally posted by ike
yep. well, y'know, you can bang a tin can with a cucumber and produce some sort of tune.. but i still wouldn't consider 'tin can and cucumber' a proper instrument...

And do you have any evidence that you can write scores of music, or any scores of music have been written, for banging a tin can with a cucumber?

Are there millions of songs out there that feature the use of banging a tin can with a cucumber?

Are there thousands of people out there who bang a tin can with a cucumber as a profession & make a living out of it?

Is there a world wide recognized 'banging a tin can with a cucumber' championships, where the banging the tin can artists battle it out using new & innovative techniques that they have pionered while they are watched by thousands of fans, & then at the end, one banging a tin can with a cucumber artist is recognized as the world champion?

Do millions of banging a tin can with a cucumber artists perform in clubs, in gigs, & in studios worldwide everyday?

Are there classes world wide for teaching people how to bang a tin can with a cucumber?

No?

Well it’s odd you draw a comparison between banging a tin can with a cucumber with turntables because you can do all of the above with turntables.

It is a real instrument & anyone has yet to prove to me that the turntable is not, by definition, a musical instrument.

um, no.. skoo's post was a joke, i never actually said that.

I must be confusing your post with Rhaeven's.

My bad on that one.

again i'll ask - actually show me where you think i've "shifted my opinion", until then, stop accusing me of things if you can't back them up.

Well firstly you say

i wouldn't consider it "real music"

& then later

i could've just said "hip hop is crap and takes no talent because i don't like it" - but that's bollocks

One post you dont think its real music, which suggests that because you think it can't be played live & you don't consider it as real music that it can't require much talent, then the next post you change your mind, saying that it isnt your veiw point at all.

Lacking in consistancy there.

blind prejudice? what..? me saying "i don't like hip hop"

Again, I will use the ice-cream scenario to explain the complexities of this one.

It's like you saying 'I hate all ice cream, because I tasted one flavour & I didn’t like it, so I assume all other flavours or types of ice cream are also shit.'

How will you know they’re all shit unless you try them all out?

Prejudice is (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge

For you to say you dislike hip hop & dismiss the whole genre as something you do not like, without it being prejudiced or ignorant, you would need to be in a well informed position, i.e. Have listened to , at least, a wide variety of hip hop. To be 100% accurate in your statement of not liking hip hop you would have to listen to every record ever produced that falls into the hip hop genre & dislike them all.

I have yet to hear any evidence of this.

You even say yourself that you like some rock bands that use turntables. Turntables are an essential element of hip hop, so technically you do like some hip hop, or at least elements of it.

[PoofBird]

anyone in doubt whether the turntable is an instrument:

listen to Kid Koala - Drunk Trumpet

Mistery solved...

[Jeff The Jiff]

anything can be an instrument. its how its used which defines it.

[PoofBird]

there is no set definition

why is a stick on a drum an instrument, and a cucumber on a tin can not?

no reason, except few people use vegetables

[Jeff The Jiff]

exactly. anything can be a drumstick to create a particular effect. sticks are generally used because they make the generally desired sound.

[Spoo]

Originally posted by PoofBird
there is no set definition

why is a stick on a drum an instrument, and a cucumber on a tin can not?

no reason, except few people use vegetables


I saw a performance on TV once where a group of artists fashioned instruments completley out of fruit and vegatables! Was amazing! Very clever and very messy!

The whole "are turntables an instrument" argument is silly. You may as well through dictionaries at each other!

I have seen and heard some amazing stuff done with decks and it takes more skill than i posses to operate them.

Do you know what i really like? When the two camps colabarate.
I used to hang out at a bar in Birmingham every Saturday night where they held a night called Home Cookin'. It was basically a bunch of DJ's a guitarist, a percussionist, a bass player and a load of break dancers. They just all jammed togther for hours. I had a few drinks with some people who where ther for the hip-hop me and my mates where there for the guitars. It was great. Such a chilled atmosphere. We exchanged views and knowledge. I knew where some of the guitar riffs came from and my new found hip-hop friends had heard some the vinyl the dj's where playing.

Not to sound like a hippy, but how about a united front in our love for music?

EDIT: oh and you cant get much more real than that! the music was just happening as we where there and responded to the crowd. It only existed in that form at that moment. Thats fuckin real music.

[foxy]

Originally posted by Spooneh

Not to sound like a Hippy, but how about a united front in our love for music?

EDIT: oh and you cant get much more real than that! the music was just happening as we where there and responded to the crowd. It only existed in that form at that moment. Thats fuckin real music.


And he's right too, so what if you don't like the music someone else likes. Really, it's a personal thing that you develop over time based on your own experiences.

I think the point is that its an experience a love, a beautiful feeling that is cultivated. (maybe a spiritual experience)

[mpd]

Originally posted by foxy so what if you don't like the music someone else likes. Really, it's a personal thing that you develop over time based on your own experiences.


Yes. Everyone likes different types of music.

I feel the problem in this thread has been that some people have shown no respect for other people's love for a certain type of music, without any real reason.

When people start showing respect, the debate will be over.

[Scribbly]

real music, eh? Here are a few: Blur, Bush, BB King, CKY, Sinatra, fun lovin' criminals, Gary Moore, Metellica, Nirvana, Qotsa, Chilli peppers, Sting, T-Bone Burnett, The Beatles... :)

non-music; dance/trance/techno/lounge/etc. , rap, whatever is in the top 50 these days..


Commence flaming! :p

"When people start showing respect, the debate will be over."

True, but that's really hard. I for one can not imagine that some one can really REALLY think, that hard trance and such things are good music...

[PoofBird]

no... flaming

suggest we shut up about it and don't stir the shit up again

[skoo]

Collabs are cool, I have some really cool mp3s at home that mix artists together and come up with some cool sounds.

Craig David in Ragga style is excellent, I have Phil Collins & Tupac singing together on another track, oh and a Country style version of Snoop Dogg - Gin & Juice.

Speaking of collabs, I've got my UNKLE cd with me again today, wooo \o/

[Smeagle]

Originally posted by PoofBird
no... flaming

suggest we shut up about it and don't stir the shit up again

Either that, or if you really want to continue it you could start a new thread in debates.

[mpd]

Originally posted by Scribbly
True, but that's really hard. I for one can not imagine that some one can really REALLY think, that hard trance and such things are good music...

Try harder then moron.

You don't have to like the same music as other people but you don't have to be a jackass & say that your taste in music is superior to others because it isnt.

No one's is.

God damn you people are annoying.

[Spoo]

MPD you make a really good, passionate informed defense of the music you like and the things you believe. You obviuosly think before you type (oh so rare!).

Why do you ruin it by throwing in things like calling people morons? Why fill your otherwise inteligent posts with insults effectively lowering your self to the level of those you are challenging?


People with half a brain can spot the morons themselves. Keep the good side of your posts and that alone will out shine those who counter with unreasoned half thought pap as replys.


Anyway:

Everybody needs to tell the difference between musical preference and musical ignorance. Think before you post as music is a topic close to many people so if you are gonna argue make it reasoned!

[mpd]

I think he is a moron ( or at least in that post he is talking like a moron), & while normal people would realise that he is being a moron, I doubt that somehow he realises this himself.

If you think about it, I'm doing him favour.

:)

[Scribbly]

I'm sorry I have to say this on this forum but this is stupid:

I'm a moron? **** you.

I posted what I like
I posted what I don't like
I said "Its hard for people to realise other people could have TOTALALLY different perception of "good music"

Did I say "oh trance fuckn sucks, it's crap, rock roxorz!12!31!. you suckorz. .arrr"?

No.

"...say that your taste in music is superior to others..."
Did I?

No. I'm also convinced I don't have a superior taste (I used to about 2 years ago).

Darn you.
I got upset.

If I insulted you in anyway in my previous post; then sorry.

Let's just stop ok?

[skoo]

GROUP HUG

[Scribbly]

yay *cuddle*

[mpd]

It's funny when people take everything I say super seriously.

[Rhaeven]

Originally posted by manny
Only a small small slice of hiphop has lyrics like that btw. Once I thought like you too. I only liked music that my peer group liked, but then one day I chanced apon some of the more underground hiphop and I listen to it now because I like it. Now for the first time, I feel comfortable with my own musical preference and I can talk to other people with the same tastes quite happily, because I feel we are bound together by this great music.

"ghetto-style" hiphop is the stuff you see on mtv cos it sells to angsty teens.

Theres a lot more cultured and mellow styles around if you dig a little deeper, with influences from jazz and blues, a whole world away from "bling bling rap"

How many times do I have to say this? I don't not listen to rap because I'm scared my friends will hate me. Most of my friends take ths piss because I like Cradle of Filth, but I still like them.

You all seem to think that because I don't like rap (aside from Run DMC, SOME Cypress Hill and a little De La Soul) that I'm an idiot kid who listens to music because it's 'cool' (or uncool if you think I'm a goth). I just want to be taken seriously. I don't like rap, but I've listened to enough to build an opinon. I didn't just listen to Eminem and say 'SHIT!' I took some time to listen and I CANNOT appreciate the music. Never once did I say that you people sucked because you liked it, I expressed my opinion (maybe if in a little bit forceful way).

I doubt many of you took the time to download that Dragonforce song. A niggling feeling in the back of your mind that told you it'd be bad? Maybe because it was heavy metal music?

As a comparison, I'll post some Tupac lyrics.

Our first date, couldn't wait to see you naked
Touch you in every secret place, I can hardly wait
To bust freely, got you red hot, you so happy to see me
Make the frontpage, primetime live on TV
My girlfriend, maybe forty five but she's still live
One shot make a nigga's heartbeat stop

See, as you started reading it, you were thinking he is talking about his first date with a real woman, but as you read on you realise he is infact refering to his gun as his girlfriend, and for a lot of black youth in America that is what life is like.

No "winged death hiding in shadows", its guns.

Now re-read the lyrics with the knowledge that his girlfriend is a gun and you MAY begin to respect where his words are coming from. Its not some fantasy world with a bloke on horseback and a friggin sword. That is REAL LIFE, not your life, not my life, but it was HIS life.

Now, I could go on and on at you for hours about the motivation behind the lyrics but the fact of the matter is this is a thread about REAL MUSIC and both of the genres we are debating about are "REAL" and "MUSIC", this entire thread is based on semantics and is on the verge of being locked.

Guns don't interest me whether you hide them behind lyrics about girls or not. -shrug-

I get enough real life in -gasp- real life. So I turn to music for cool ass fantasy stuff. I also turn to music because of the quality of the music. And my god it is quality. You cannot deny the ability of guitarists liek Yngwie Malmsteen and Steve Vai. I can understand there are skilled DJs and such, but how can it be as impressive as an amazing guitar solo? -air guitars along happily-

We stopped talking about real music a while ago and this has turned into best music :P

[Martial Law]

Yay another person who likes Cradle of Filth. Damnation and a Day was disappointing though.

[Rhaeven]

Originally posted by Martial Law
Yay another person who likes Cradle of Filth. Damnation and a Day was disappointing though.

I didn't think so, I loved it. It's really progressed fro their original death style (although if you really liked that, then D&AD will be pretty bad :))

I especially love the orchestrals and Mannequin.

[mpd]

Originally posted by Rhaeven
You all seem to think that because I don't like rap (aside from Run DMC, SOME Cypress Hill and a little De La Soul)

Whoa there!

Didn’t you say earlier....?

Hip hop sucks for so many reasons.

Which, before you edited it, said something more along the lines of 'All hip hop is shit'.

Hip-hop/rap/garage are all just throwing music to the four winds and ignoring it all under the guise of 'keeping it real' or whatever shit....i just think it sounds like complete shit.

How is anyone supposed to take you or your argument seriously when there is no consistency to what you are saying?

I doubt many of you took the time to download that Dragonforce song. A niggling feeling in the back of your mind that told you it'd be bad? Maybe because it was heavy metal music?

I read the lyrics.

I didn’t like them.

I don't like some hip hop artists, not because of the tunes, but because of the lyrics & it can work the other way round too.

If I’m going to listen to something than I want the content to be something I can appreciate as a whole.

but how can it be as impressive as an amazing guitar solo?

Guitar solo's make me cringe.

(or uncool if you think I'm a goth).

heh

goths. (http://maddox.xmission.com/gothagain.html)

I love maddox. :)

[Spoo]

Again with the insults?

Trying to bully your way to "victory"?

If you know you've "won" leave it and just take the moral high ground as your reward.

The goth thing was too far.

You dont want people to comment on hip-hop if they dont understand it so practice what you preach.

Most people arent even aware really what the whole goth movenment is.

[mpd]

Bullying?

Please care to explain how exactly I am bullying, because that is a very serious allegation to make.



Ooh, & the joys of winning an argument in a forum!

Whoop de do!

Quick, some one whip up a fucking medal!

:rolleyes:

Like it matters who wins.

Its not going to have any significant impact on the world outside this tiny thread is it?

I am merely participating in this to practise my debating & get some mental stimulation, because I sure as hell won’t get it from TV.

& please point out where I actually said anything derogatory towards Goths.

Oh look, I didn’t!

It was Maddox!

Naughty Maddox for being hilarious & having an opinion!

I just find him highly amusing.


So, what was your point again?

[Rhaeven]

your comments made me rethink my argument and put it a little better. fine, if i have to fucking type everything out exactly how you want it before you'll shut up, here it is.

IN MY OPINION, MOST hip-hip/rap sucks because it doesn't appeal to me. If it appeals to you then good on you. You are a much better person than me. I just happen to prefer heavy metal, which is obviously shit. But my opinion is bad anyway.

(BTW, Maddox is a prick. Not beause he expresses his opinions, thats fine, but because his opinions are idiotic.)

[Spoo]

The tone you take in your writing is intimidating and agressive. Hardly the way one should write when presenting an argument or replying to one.

You use your one trick , namely sarcasm, at every oppurtunity.

You argue like someone who fancies themselves as an interlectual, someone who is elitist and someone who very much has something to prove.

I'm afraid your writing is laced with immaturaty and a very closed attitude.

& please point out where I actually said anything derogatory towards Goths.

Oh look, I didn’t!

It was Maddox!

By linking to the site about goths you are effectivley referencing the source. Why would you do that if you didnt mean it for some reason? Why then hide behind semantics?

If you cant find any mental stimulation from television your mental capacity for anaylsis and critque cannot be very high.

In short as i said before the way in which you defend your beliefs is admirable but you really do lack the skills and subtley to take part in an adult debate.

You act like a child who thinks pretending to be clever and shouting louder will make them right.

[Destrukto]

Originally posted by mpd
Bullying?

Please care to explain how exactly I am bullying, because that is a very serious allegation to make.


Try harder then moron

God damn you people are annoying.

you angsty mong?

[PoofBird]

i agree with spooneh,

stop offending people,

even if they are morons (which they aren't)

edit: ooh, look Destrukto posted while i typed... to add to that... you call that having a discussion.... please stop

[mpd]

How odd.

I was accused of being a bully a moment ago, yet the very people accusing me of being a bully are the ones ganging up on me!


Spooneh, please for the love of God, make up your mind.

Earlier you were saying MPD you make a really good, passionate informed defense of the music you like and the things you believe. You obviuosly think before you type (oh so rare!).

& now 'You act like a child who thinks pretending to be clever and shouting louder will make them right'.

How many times have I mentioned consistency?

'You use your one trick , namely sarcasm, at every oppurtunity'.

So what if I do?

Maybe that’s just my writing style.

Sorry I actually have some consistency (ooh there’s that word again) unlike the rest of you.

As for Rhaeven, I do apologize if you have felt bullied by what I have said, but I think Spooneh, Poofbird & Destrukto are being very patronising saying that I am bullying you when you haven’t made that claim yourself!

If I was seriously upsetting anyone with what I was saying than I would of hoped that it could have been made clear to me through private message & I would have apologized & maybe toned down a bit.

I am VERY disappointed that no one did this, yet decided it would be appropriate to make a personal attack on me in the forum & completely turning what was a debate about music to a slagging match.

& I'm the one who is 'someone who is elitist and someone who very much has something to prove'.

I think I could equally say the same thing about you three.

& if my argument is so poor why has no one challenged any of my points & instead decided to criticise me personaly & acusing me of bullying?

You three need to get your heads out your asses & get a sense of humour ffs!

Oh, & the beauty of Maddox is that deep down, they know he is right, but he is criticising every stupid thing they actually believe in, & they don’t actually have the brains or the balls to think they might just be a dipshit!

[PoofBird]

it's not about critisizing you, I don't care whether i agree with you or not.


I just don't like your name calling, and ask you to stop.

stop.

[Destrukto]

Wheras I have only answered your question...

I am not patronising you in any way...
I ask you in the same way to point out where I did that...

It's just that yes, you're writingstyle is constantly on a (to my eyes) patronising an sarcastic tone that hits a raw nerve as to pure decency with me...

Difference of style maybe, but you have made people feel bad...
If you can't take it that I quote the relevan posts, don't ask the question...

Feel free to call me names...

[Anthropod]

Originally posted by Rhaeven I doubt many of you took the time to download that Dragonforce song.

Valley of the Damned.. 'Tis a good song, heard it when DragonForce was still DragonHeart, and I still have it in my playlist.
Do you know if the album with em' is good?

[Scribe]

but u forgot a few. ac/dc metallica rage against the machine offspring rob zombie black sabbath and kiss.

[mpd]

OK.

I would like to clear this up.

If people have a serious problem with my writing style then they can talk to me via pm & i will apologize to them.

Or better yet, I will apologize here.

I am sorry for any offence I may have caused to anyone. My intentions where merely to have a highly passionate debate & not to cause upset. (If I was, you'd probably know about it!)

I still don't think it was fair to call me a bully as I don't think I have bullied anyone, & thats a nasty thing to be accused of, as you all should know.

'I am not patronising you in any way...
I ask you in the same way to point out where I did that...'

I didnt mean you were patronising me, I meant those that were accusing me of bullying were patronising Rhaeven, or anyone else, by telling him he was being bullied, as if he couldnt decide that for hiself.

Feel free to call me names...

Seems like your trying to bait me into further argument there.

I don't think thats a responsible attitude to take.


& The name calling thing.

I feel a pinch of salt is in order there!

People have got abusive/ agressive towards me in this argument & I have shrugged it off & tried to stick to the debate at hand.

Those that I did call names gave me as good as they got & fair play to them!

They can stick up for themselves.

They don't need mollycoddling.


I think people should keep things in perspective.

Am I of any importance in your life? Do you actually care whether I think your a mong? I really don't see why you should.

I didnt post here to start nasty shit & personal arguments.

(Oh & Digga, sorry for monging up your thread! heh!)

[skoo]

I dont think any one person is to blame for the heated chat in this thread, so singling mpd out wasn't very nice.

A lot of the people posting have passionate views (saucy) and are likely to take offence easily.

I think it might be a good idea to lock this thread soon, for the simple fact it wont ever reach a grand climax (saucy).

I demmand a new group hug, the last one didnt work!

[mpd]

*hugs*

:)

I think locking is a good idea.

[skoo]

*hugs*

Bye bye thread, we'll miss you!