What is truly real?

[Zelutos]

Yes, i realize this is probably the sort of thing thought of as stupid to think about but, what of what is seen, heard, felt or smelt, is truely real? I mean isn't most of it just what our minds percieve? Who is to say that a schiztophrenic man is seeing things that don't exist and you are? when truly the only proof that is had of reality is the perception of the mind? Ponder my confusing thoughts as you eat your daily pie and remember one thing: d'oublie pas votre sous-vetements :rawk:

[malcolio]

Sounds like someones just watched the Matrix....

I can't really think of anything adequete to put as a reply, but this argument could also be about how you define a colourblind person. I mean, how do we know that we're not colourblind?? So, not only might it not be real, it might also be yellow. :D

[Zelutos]

Precisely, This is something I just enjoy pondering. Because the human mind can and is decieved at times, thus the creation of certain mental diseases. But how do we truly know what from what? Sure we are told what should be real and what isnt by our parentals, or doctors but are they always right? :confused:

[Seraph]

This is actually quite an interesting topic. It probably would do better in the debate section (?)
I think more people would give their views there.

I dont think anyone could answer your question.
But there are always opinions ;)

[Mushroom]

it's an interesting question, but it's more or less like the question "what is normal?"
As Seraph said, it is really a matter of opinions, those being what makes something real and whether whatever it is fits those criteria.
A rather philosophical question - but also probably better off in the debates forum, if you want to try and reach a possible answer ;)

[Zelutos]

Just trying to sitr up the philosophers of the forum ;) I find it a nice topic to ponder.. especially since I myself have such issues with it. Truly what do you all see as the definition of real? Im kind of curious.

[ZekeyLizard]

Ahem...

"I think, therefore I am."

[RadiationHazard]

But can a mind exist without a body?

[ZekeyLizard]

Of course!
Keep it in a giant test-tube with wires going into it.
Just like a sci-fi movie!

[Zelutos]

Your missing the idea.. Is what your mind percieves as real, real? because it is most likely quite different from what i may percieve, such as an example: I see little dots everywhere on everything as if they make up everything, including there air, is it something that exists? or is it insanity none the less?

[the*only*kandi]

Originally posted by Zelutos
Precisely, This is something I just enjoy pondering. Because the human mind can and is decieved at times, thus the creation of certain mental diseases. But how do we truly know what from what? Sure we are told what should be real and what isnt by our parentals, or doctors but are they always right? :confused:


i do belive that things arent always the way we see hear or (any of the other sences you wanna bring into this) make us see hear ect. things,yes we are told what is real and our parentals may try to force thier views onto us....but they are far from right...
i dont think they kno any better then us...but rather feel they should....and thus try to make us belive they kno weather they do or not....so....no they arent always right...nor will they ever ALWAYS be rite.....they are no more wrong or rite then we are....
(i knew you would find the forum:)bout damnd time:D ):weebl:

[Zelutos]

She brings a valid point. How are adults any more right than anyone younger? Experience on earth does not teach that sort of thing, not at all. But as it would appear they preach it anyway.. as the saying goes "if 90% of the world says something stupid... its still stupid"

Thusly I believe human intellelect truly cannot comprehend the idea of what is truly real

[Link]

You are starting to remind me of Confushous....:weebl:

[arsippe_luvs_pi]

We do not know that anything is real, it's just easier deluding ourselves.

Or at least that's what my invisible friends tell me.

N'oublies pas laver ton écuerils!

[Zelutos]

But is illuding our selves work of the wise? Isnt the principles of science, supposed to be the ultimate search for truth in our universe? How can a man sit down and say, "since i see it, i taste i, i feel it, it must be there" when they then look at molecules and the air and say "i cant see it, but its still there" For one to percieve something as real, a human that is, it requires them to personally experiance the feelings involved. The only exception i have noticed is religion which truly, no one can fight with, or against. However let me ask all of you a simple question.. if a man walks in front of you, is he really there or is he your mind?

[the*only*kandi]

Originally posted by Zelutos
She brings a valid point. How are adults any more right than anyone younger? Experience on earth does not teach that sort of thing, not at all. But as it would appear they preach it anyway.. as the saying goes "if 90% of the world says something stupid... its still stupid"

Thusly I believe human intellelect truly cannot comprehend the idea of what is truly real

my point excatly...if you think i mean really think (those of you who have thinking problems dont try tp hard you might hurt your selfs.)they (adults) are no more rite or wrong then people of younger age....and i think that thier generation and ours have seen differnt experiances....therefore there may be two differnt standards of "reality" so nothing is "real" if you understand what i am saying......

[badge]

What is right today wasn't yesterday and won't be tomorrow unless it is right by the majority but then what to they know. There is much that while being believed as true throught the centuries is then proved to be wrong. Truth is only the view of the majority based on the limited imformation they have at that time. What is acceptable 200 years ago is repulsive to many today but what about next week?

How many apsolutes are there or do I mean absolutes, probably but then which is right and I should cut down on the absinth or absinthe depending on which bottle it is I am drinking out of.

[patdude]

hello peps

[Mr_Moo]

Originally posted by Zelutos
if a man walks in front of you, is he really there or is he your mind?

Id say, both. Human perception Is flawed at best, we're just sacks of flesh with limited sentience coupled with a few basic abilities.
If a man walked infront of you, your sense's would initally say "course he's in front of you, you nut"
But just because your senses say that, doesnt mean he is. or isnt, You'll never know for certain because we cant, we're kinda like stupid robots in a sense.

Another good headfuck is trying to contemplate "infinity"
you can try, but you cant, If you think you can, your fooling your self. If you tell a robot to comprehend infinity, It'll have a fit (well..im assuming it will anyway, theres also the little problem of not having a robot around to ask but still, you get the idea)

Human Reasoning is not Absolute, theres no right, nor wrong. we just dont understand yet. Its fun to try though

[Salty Samurai]

Our elders once discussed the concept of real.

the oldest, wisest elder, Dao, proficised the blind faith of humanity as its demise, indeed, our beliefs to which we hold in the highest light have no base, no proof. Who do you follow, who do you trust, which is your book, and does it matter? a secret now, only the dead can tell.

[Ogilvy]

Originally posted by Mr_Moo
Id say, both. Human perception Is flawed at best, we're just sacks of flesh with limited sentience coupled with a few basic abilities.
If a man walked infront of you, your sense's would initally say "course he's in front of you, you nut"
But just because your senses say that, doesnt mean he is. or isnt, You'll never know for certain because we cant, we're kinda like stupid robots in a sense.

Another good headfuck is trying to contemplate "infinity"
you can try, but you cant, If you think you can, your fooling your self. If you tell a robot to comprehend infinity, It'll have a fit (well..im assuming it will anyway, theres also the little problem of not having a robot around to ask but still, you get the idea)

Human Reasoning is not Absolute, theres no right, nor wrong. we just dont understand yet. Its fun to try though

Um, infinity is an easy concept to grasp, I'm afraid.

Think of a number line from -5 to +5. Between every two points on a number line is an infinite number of points. You can divide it up over and over and over again, and it will continue to get smaller and smaller, but it will never reach zero. This can be illustrated by typing 1/2 into a calculator and constantly dividing it by 2. You can split it all you want, but it will never reach zero. 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64, 1/128, 1/256, 1/512, then it ****s up and changes it to decimals, but that's only because it's a piece of junk made in China, anyways, it just goes on and on forever, until you have to use an electron microscope to see the points on the line. And between all of those tiny points that you have to use an electron microscope to see, there is also an infinite number of points. Quite simple, really.

In reply to the original poster:

Pure mathematics is real. Pure science is real. History is real. Generally the core subjects learned in school are all intertwined in the laws of the universe that we live in. Mathematics, science, and history define reality. Every one of them must exist for one of them to exist, for the universe to exist.

[Salty Samurai]

REPENT!!!

[Ogilvy]

Originally posted by Salty Samurai
REPENT!!!

Now what the hell?

[Salty Samurai]

your hell, you fool, my time is at hand, is yours?

[Ogilvy]

Originally posted by Salty Samurai
your hell, you fool, my time is at hand, is yours?

No, sorry, it's not.

[Salty Samurai]

You know nothing of the five scared scrolls, of the elders. You know not the prophasy, grasshopper, you cannot come to me without proof, go back to your blue nowhere and repent.

[Ogilvy]

Oh, I know everything there is to know about the five sacred scrolls, buddy. I know more than you'll ever know about them. I know that they're a bunch of crap that the elders wrote 10,000 years ago while they were injecting 10 milligrams of heroin into their testicles. I wouldn't take that stuff seriously if I were you.

[Salty Samurai]

If you truly hast read the scrolls, thou can answer this question.

What is the name of the man,who belonging to the race of walloons, succeded in defeating the pie lord, hazzán, and what species did he choose for his ceremony?

If you get it right, it proves you a samurai, if it is wrong, FUCKING REPENT!!!

[Ogilvy]

Originally posted by Salty Samurai
If you truly hast read the scrolls, thou can answer this question.

What is the name of the man,who belonging to the race of walloons, succeded in defeating the pie lord, hazzán, and what species did he choose for his ceremony?

If you get it right, it proves you a samurai, if it is wrong, FUCKING REPENT!!!

That man's name was Bob. All samurai know that. I knew the guy personally. He chose the platypus as the species for his ceremony. Again, this something every samurai knows. I shouldn't even have to say this.

[Salty Samurai]

I feel i must apoligize, but theese are dnagerous times, I see you are a true samurai, and as you know, the Pies are rising in the north and we must be careful. As we both know, it was written ten thousand years ago by our elders in the sacred scrolls that this would come, and they would impersonate the samurai, which why we must defeat them and force the to FUCKING REPENT!!!!

[Zelutos]

Hm I never expected this to arises from a thread about what is real.. but ah well. If you must know I am on of those pies I am decending upon your homeland! Beware of my coming for these are the days of Zelutos the shroom! The shroom which claims the world!
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Now on a more serious note. I agree human perception is flawed, it is amazing how quickly the human mind can be tricked, or how easily it seems to trick itself. But the questions stands none the less is the schitzophrenc man flawed?

[Ogilvy]

http://www.timecube.com

Quote:

My wisdom so antiquates known knowledge, that
a psychiatrist examining my behavior, eccentric
by his academic single corner knowledge, knows
no course other than to judge me schizoprenic.

Yeah, I think this guy's pretty flawed.

[Ogilvy]

Originally posted by Zelutos
Yes, i realize this is probably the sort of thing thought of as stupid to think about but, what of what is seen, heard, felt or smelt, is truely real? I mean isn't most of it just what our minds percieve? Who is to say that a schiztophrenic man is seeing things that don't exist and you are? when truly the only proof that is had of reality is the perception of the mind? Ponder my confusing thoughts as you eat your daily pie and remember one thing: d'oublie pas votre sous-vetements :rawk:

If what the schizophrenic is seeing cannot be seen by others and cannot be proven to exist through science, math, or history, then it is false.

There is proof of reality outside the perception of the mind. If there wasn't, then if everybody in this world thought something, it would be true.

[Zelutos]

Originally posted by Ogilvy
If what the schizophrenic is seeing cannot be seen by others and cannot be proven to exist through science, math, or history, then it is false.

There is proof of reality outside the perception of the mind. If there wasn't, then if everybody in this world thought something, it would be true.

Let me ask you a question, who came up with the ideas of math and science? Humans, Can anyone explain the reasons why the laws of science and math became the way they are no, when you try you end up in a endless loop of using laws to explain laws but the one question always remains.. Why? At our present knowledge we dont know enough to answer that question or even how it all started, sure there is always a theory or a hypothesis but the truth has eluded us yet,

[Ogilvy]

Originally posted by Zelutos
Let me ask you a question, who came up with the ideas of math and science? Humans, Can anyone explain the reasons why the laws of science and math became the way they are no, when you try you end up in a endless loop of using laws to explain laws but the one question always remains.. Why? At our present knowledge we dont know enough to answer that question or even how it all started, sure there is always a theory or a hypothesis but the truth has eluded us yet,

Um, no, nobody CAME UP with the ideas of math and science. They aren't ideas. Math and science have ALWAYS existed. Mankind DISCOVERED them like an explorer discovers a new continent. The continent was always there. They just found it for the first time.

[Ogilvy]

Math and science exist independently of man's knowledge of them.

[Salty Samurai]

math and science must REPENT!!!

[Ogilvy]

Originally posted by Salty Samurai
math and science must REPENT!!!

THIS IS TRUE! FOR EVEN MATH AND SCIENCE MUST REPENT IF THEY ARE TO AVOID DESTRUCTION! ALL MUST REPENT OR LIVE IN FEAR UNDER SWIFT-MOVING CLOUDS OF DEATH. FOR SO IT IS WRITTEN ON THE FIVE SACRED SCROLLS THAT THIS IS THE WAY OF THE UNREPENTENT.

[Ratboy]

People are entitled to opinions, wrong opinions.
truth can go shove it's head up a cow's ass, I'm happy with my sense of reality.