How Far Will England Go In The World Cup?

[Darling]

Just how well do you believe this England team, under Sven, really can do?

Don't just be patriotic (if you're English), be as subjective as you can be as I'm curious to read your replies. Especially after the English press doing it's usual of declaring England the next winners of the World Cup after one decent performance at home to Poland.

[Dingbat]

Quarters I reckon. No further and the press'll once again blame the manager/a player/the referee/FIFA for their failure to win.

[da-geezer]

I'm going to say the group stages; second round at a push. England have looked wholly unconvincing over the past few months in the Qualifiers. I know they're not a true indicator of the quality of football we can expect to see from the team in the World Cup games; but they don't seem to be performing particularly well at the moment.

[Chavvy]

Subjectively I would say quarter finals as a minimum.

[Thomp]

Semi's. That's confidence ain't it? :p

[dogincognito]

Impossible to predict before the draw has been made, so I'll go for semis.

[Preasure]

Their peformance against smaller countries in the qualifiers was dissapointing, but they should be able to up their game before the cup. I'd say the semi's.

[Shave]

i put semis as i think'll they'll have a really tough run, win all the hard games, then go out to the underdog

[NinjaPenguin]

Hopefully quarter finals or semi finals if the team put theyre mind to it. Ideally I wish the could be winners but theres to much competition and to many chances of mucking up (what England seem to do best). But realistically semis or quaters I reckon.

[mrsnuffles]

We're going to win you pessimistic bastards!

I think our tactics/formation should come first however, which may well mean bye bye Gerrard from the starting line up.

Then again, he may have learned to play with Lampard by then.

[jonffm]

Group stages? Why even bother yourself watching if you really have that little faith that a seeded team can't get through a group. Jesus. Has support for team gon so low that people can't even support to team realisticly? Brazil, France, Spain, they all had terrible results in their groups. Brazil only won 9/18 matches, France drew 5 times, Spain are in the bloody qualifiers after being topped by a nothing team....and yet all those countrys still have faith that they can go all the way...while England, who won 8/10 matches, and have only lost one qualifier in donkeys years, get all this bollocks like there's no point in even going but certain 'fans'. It's not being realitic, it's just being pessamistic so if the worst comes to worst, you can stick your noses in here with a giant "Told ya so!". The song ''you only sing when you're winning'' comes to mind.

Darling, there's a reason for that. It's about building support after a disappointing few months. Trying to drum up support and momentum isn't some silly ploy by those nastly old tabloids, it's just trying to freaking get the nation behind our team, which really should happen anyway..and yes, that is being patriotic, but how can you support your home country without being patriotic anyways? :confused:

I think we can go all the way. We some of the best players in the world in every position. Terry could walk into ANY national team. Lamps, Becks, Cole, SWP, Gerrard, King...we're spoilt for choice in midfield. Usually it's a debate about who is good enough to go to the world cup, this year, it's a debate about which star player has to be dropped to make room. Hardly a depressing state of affairs is it? Owen is still one of the best finishers in the world when he's on his day, and with Rooney...well, ANYTHING is possible with Rooney in our team, because I am now convinced that he is quite possibly the best striker in the world. Only yesterday I was reading a Chelsea forum, and he's the only player that they still say "damn...I wish we bought him" about.

We have the quality in players to win it, theres no doubt about that, but Sven has to get it right. If we play with the same positive atatcking attitude that we did against Poland, I see no reason why we can't be there in at least the last 4. At least.


Seriously though people...we've NEVER played well against smaller teams. We always play sub-par against the likes of minnows...but that's not even a slight indication of how well we can play next year. If anything, it could help us...gives the lads a kick up the arse because it's probably dawned on them by now that they are in fact NOT undefeatable against smaller teams, and the english public will be right on theirbacks if it ever happens again..and i'm sure they know that too.

[Meadow]

Bear in mind we've only once got past the Quarter Finals, and that was in 1966. I'm not exactly filled with confidence by Sven seemingly falling apart as of late - but he's got six months to sort himself out. Our top players appear to be on good form, but Beckham and especially Rooney are going to have to watch it when it comes to refs.

[Mr stabby]

We wont even qualify......wait, we have? Niice.
Quater finals mabye, I voted group but to be honest (as i always normally skate around the subject, mostly i plain lie) your posts have swayed me.

[Dingbat]

Darling, there's a reason for that. It's about building support after a disappointing few months. Trying to drum up support and momentum isn't some silly ploy by those nastly old tabloids, it's just trying to freaking get the nation behind our team, which really should happen anyway..and yes, that is being patriotic, but how can you support your home country without being patriotic anyways? :confused:

You can get over-patriotic. Besides, it is a silly ploy by the tabloids. We Scots have watched it happen every single tournament. As soon as you're in it, you don't do the sensible thing and say "We might have a chance to win, if we play our best"...you go into full-blown John Motson 1966 mode and say "We're going to win it! This is our year!"

I think we can go all the way. We some of the best players in the world in every position. Terry could walk into ANY national team. Lamps, Becks, Cole, SWP, Gerrard, King...we're spoilt for choice in midfield. Usually it's a debate about who is good enough to go to the world cup, this year, it's a debate about which star player has to be dropped to make room. Hardly a depressing state of affairs is it? Owen is still one of the best finishers in the world when he's on his day, and with Rooney...well, ANYTHING is possible with Rooney in our team, because I am now convinced that he is quite possibly the best striker in the world. Only yesterday I was reading a Chelsea forum, and he's the only player that they still say "damn...I wish we bought him" about.

But these 'star players', who you quite rightly say are some of the best players in the world, don't seem to quite gel together as a team. One good match against Poland (in which, incidentally, the stars weren't all playing and they played better as a result) won't win a World Cup.

We have the quality in players to win it, theres no doubt about that, but Sven has to get it right. If we play with the same positive atatcking attitude that we did against Poland, I see no reason why we can't be there in at least the last 4. At least.

There it is, that 1966 spirit. "If we don't get to the semis, we've failed". But England are not even in the top 10 for the FIFA Rankings. Admittedly, yes, they are fairly dodgy as far as judging how good a team is goes; but the people in this country act like it's their God-given right to be in the semi-finals when it really really isn't. They were fortunate to top the group.

Seriously though people...we've NEVER played well against smaller teams. We always play sub-par against the likes of minnows...but that's not even a slight indication of how well we can play next year. If anything, it could help us...gives the lads a kick up the arse because it's probably dawned on them by now that they are in fact NOT undefeatable against smaller teams, and the english public will be right on theirbacks if it ever happens again..and i'm sure they know that too.

So if you playing against other international teams isn't even a slight indication of how well you can play next year...what is? The players performing well for their respective clubs?

I'm not saying England do not have the quality to go all the way. Their squad quality is evident. What I am saying is that on the basis of their form over the last year or so, they are not a World Cup-winning team by any means. Especially if the team in question is 'Sven's favourites'.

[jonffm]

You can get over-patriotic. Besides, it is a silly ploy by the tabloids. We Scots have watched it happen every single tournament. As soon as you're in it, you don't do the sensible thing and say "We might have a chance to win, if we play our best"...you go into full-blown John Motson 1966 mode and say "We're going to win it! This is our year!"

It's called blind faither. It may be misguided, and the expectations may be high, but that's what supporting a, dispite what you say, top nation going into the world cup is all about. While theres a decent chance we can win it, which there is, I will fully get behind the team. Simple as.

Remember, people called Liverpool unrealitic, some tabloids even mocked us for saying we can win the CL. That came around to bite alot of folk in the ass, did it not?



But these 'star players', who you quite rightly say are some of the best players in the world, don't seem to quite gel together as a team. One good match against Poland (in which, incidentally, the stars weren't all playing and they played better as a result) won't win a World Cup.

This came up before Euro 2004, but I am proud of how well we preformed there, and I can't see how this year will be any different..it's just this time, we have more depth.


There it is, that 1966 spirit. "If we don't get to the semis, we've failed". But England are not even in the top 10 for the FIFA Rankings. Admittedly, yes, they are fairly dodgy as far as judging how good a team is goes; but the people in this country act like it's their God-given right to be in the semi-finals when it really really isn't. They were fortunate to top the group.

Wow. Rankings. Because the so-called 'best' teams always win everything, right? Yup...last two names on the CL trophy where always the faves to win...right? As was Greece in 2004...right? Hmmm. :rolleyes:

And no we wen't. We fully deserved to win the group. We had one bad result. A draw is not a big deal, but the loss was. We showed the difference in class both times we played Poland. We where always the best team in the group. Credit to Poland, they played their hearts out and i'm glad they are in the WC, because they deserve it, but we where still the better team, no doubt.


So if you playing against other international teams isn't even a slight indication of how well you can play next year...what is? The players performing well for their respective clubs?

England never get up for matches they regard as 'unimportant'. It's not a great mentality, but that's the way it goes. We didn't play great in qualifying for 2004 either...remember, we only got in via scoring in the very last minute, but did we play anythign liek that in the actuall tournie? Not on your life.[/QUOTE]

[dejosc]

2nd round probably to Argentina lol

[jonffm]

Pfft. Argentina are a shadow of what they used to be. So are the Germans.

I hope we get them both! This year, we've got a stronger squad than both of em.

[Dingbat]

I had planned a huge response to your post, Jonny.

But you know what?

We could argue all the way to the first game in Germany and nothing would be resolved.

I'll take a raincheck 'til July 10th, 2006.

Edit/ Argentina aren't exactly a shadow of what they once were if they could beat Brazil? Unless you're going to say the World Champions are ALSO a shadow of what they once were.

[jonffm]

Aka, stop argument mongering ;)

[Dingbat]

To be fair, your first post was in response to a lot of other people; I'd have said the same to anyone making a similar post.

[AngryPaul]

Odd how no-one thinks we will get the final and lose. ¬_¬

[basstard]

Odd how no-one thinks we will get the final and lose. ¬_¬

Simple reason, there're three types of people voting on the poll.

One, the delusional English. These peoples think the team will either win, or make it to the semi finals. I will show myself eating a hat-shaped cake in the Pics Of You thread if this happens.

Two, the realistic English. These are peoples who think England might reach the quarter finals if you're lucky, but then lose to a plucky team, giving you all another good excuse to yell at my friend Sven "Volvo" Goran Erikkson.

Third, everyone else, who hope to see England lose in their first matches, if possible. Then to laugh :p

[Captain]

I think we have a decent shot at kissing that trophy.
Look at all the shocks England's sports teams have done over the past few years.
Rugby World Cup and The Ashes when we were underdog's in both.
Why not in Football?
All you England supporters who say we wont win it shouldn't be allowed to wear an England T-Shirt. If we think we'll lose something, we will. If we go in thinking yeh 5-0 tonight, to us, then we have more of a chance of winning than going in half hearted.

[Paul12345]

Third, everyone else, who hope to see England lose in their first matches, if possible. Then to laugh :p

For "everyone else" read "bitter Scotmen angry at the fact their national side couldn't beat the under 13's blind schools reserve side." :p

[Dingbat]

Yes, that's right Paul you nincompoop.

the basstard - they don't get what it's like to be a Scottish supporter, do they?

I'm always so amused by English fans who say "we'd support Scotland if they got to a finals" then go on to constantly laugh at and criticise Scotland.

What's good though is that we don't ever take ourselves too seriously. We know our team is nothing special but we love them anyway. No other international fans would ever be able to understand, much less England fans. Yes, we're patriotic and we want our team to win, but when we lose, we don't often berate them, and I'll tell you why.

1972 was our year. We quite possibly could've won that world cup, or so we thought. Ally MacLeod, bless him, thought that we could and would. We drew with Iran, lost to Peru and beat Holland 3-1. (In other words, we did things the Scottish way) Since then, we learned that getting your hopes up just causes disappointment - so why not just enjoy the ride? ;)

[/tangent]

[basstard]

What the English supporters never seem to learn is it's not the winning, it's the having fun, the expectations, the rollercoaster of emotions on the way to getting there that counts. Especially the fun part.

The English press hype every game up - "we can win the world cup!" and then blame something trivial when they lose - "it was the ref. It was the manager, he drives a Volvo. It was the blind linesman. The wind was blowing in the wrong direction. Moles buried under the penalty spot and distracted Beckham by streaking".

The reason we have so much fun - and I've experienced this from both the stadium and the pub, showing the game on a big screen - is that we don't expct to win, we're there for the craic.

We've had our chances - 1967, anyone? - or even when we were holding Brazil to a one all standstill in 1994. Then we scored an own goal.

Such is life. Unwind. Stop reading the papers. Cease bashing your Volvo-owning manager. And just enjoy it. With beer.

Actually, no. You might burn London down. :p

[jonffm]

Hmm..and how would you have described Greece supporters before 2004?

Would you have called those that where bigging their team up to win delusional? Indeed so.


Basically, whats happening here is what happens constantly. Nautral or pessamistic fans throw their opinions at the most likely result, which is probably the QF, and then go on to claim that everyone that holds a different opinion is delusional. All this, basically so they have the 'safe bet', so if the odds go in their favor, they can runa round all happy with glee and say how they're so very in-touch with the modern game, and everyone else is over-patriotic, idiotic, unrealist prats. How very new and innovative...because people haven't been doing THAT for half a century. :rolleyes:

And to be perfectly honest...you wouldnt understand the feeling of getting so close, abd losing it. You wouldn't understand the bitterness of losing in a semi-final or going out to debatable refereeing decisions, because frankly, you've never experienced it. Untill you do, you won't know what it's like, you can only imagine.

It's like Comparing Bournemouths FA cup run to Liverpools. If Bournemouth get into the third round, i'd be jumping with glee, and if they then went out, I really wouldnt care because I had no expectations to begin with. Now, if Liverpool went out, like last year, in the 3rd round, i'd be gutted..simply because we're playing in it to WIN it, not just to be an also-ran, al la Scotland.


I really wish this forum was full of nothing but Liverpool and Greece supporters, so that the last two tournies, pessamistic idiots who only ever believe in the safe-bets would have been made to look like the glory-hunters they are for the last two seasons.

Check and mate.

[Paul12345]

Yes, that's right Paul you nincompoop.

the basstard - they don't get what it's like to be a Scottish supporter, do they?

I'm always so amused by English fans who say "we'd support Scotland if they got to a finals" then go on to constantly laugh at and criticise Scotland.


Actually I was just trying to wind up the basstard but feel free to criticise those select few English fans who are so ridiculous as to fob off our chances every time we put in some slightly mediocre performance against some country no ones ever heard of, I agree that people should back off Sven for many reasons such as, it's not always his fault, he has done a good job anyway looking at it in the long run, and most importantly that football is ultimately entertainment so getting stressed out that we didn't perform fantastically well against Azerbaijan (or whoever) and protesting that Sven should get the sack is ultimately pretty ridiculous.
Anyway I believe that on the day any match could go either way depending on numerous different factors so England could draw a group of supposedly easy matches and not take a single point or draw a group full of the worlds elite and win every match it all depends on factors building up in the final few months and specific things on the day in question so predicting how we will do will be impossible to do now and still pretty tough even up to the final few days before the first match (not to mention the fact that irrelavent of who we play first we could put in the worst performance ever seen and lose 20-0 and still go on to win the tournament.)

[ZOIDBERG]

We'll go all the way, of course.

[mrsnuffles]

100% true facts for your consideration.

Fact the first: in the last world cup we lost to the eventual winners.

2. in said match; bollocks was Ronaldinho having a shot.

3. the current team is better, and has more depth.

4. WE JUST FINISHED TOP OF THE QUALIFYING GROUP

5. Greece for God's sake. Greece

6. We cannot fail to win.

You can't argue with fact gentlemen/shemales.

Thank you.

[Dingbat]

really wish this forum was full of nothing but Liverpool and Greece supporters, so that the last two tournies, pessamistic idiots who only ever believe in the safe-bets would have been made to look like the glory-hunters they are for the last two seasons.

Check and mate.

Not really.

Personally, I wish this forum was full of Scotland fans. It's like I said to the basstard - you just can't understand it, can you?

Enjoy being there. Enjoy the fact you're at the World Cup, it's a great events.

Stop instead theorising about how well you'll do and what will happen and how you're going to win etc.

And Scotland aren't "in it to be also-rans", since every team in a tournament is out to win it. They just don't all *expect* to. See, that's the difference between current England fans and the Greece fans before Euro 2004; the Greek fans said that they thought they could win it and that they had a good team. England fans, on the other hand, tend not to say that they think they will so much as that they will win.

[jonffm]

*Sigh*

The fact is, England in terms of players, are not in the same league as Greece, and certainly not Scotland. Rankings mean nothing knowdays, for the reasons I said before. Player for player, we have a team that is not only capable of beating Brazil, but BETTER than them in a good few positions. They Don't have a John Terry, they don't have a Lampard, and they certainly don't have a Rooney. England fans EXPECT to win the World Cup, simply because since 1966, we've had sides WELL capable of doing it, but for several reasons we have failed when it has come to the crunch, and it plainly hasn't been good enough. It doesn't help that every time we go out lately it's effectable by a debatable refereeing decision or an individual...i'm looking at you, Beckham.

Scotland don't take it as seriously as England. That's plain to see. If you go through, great, if you go out, who cares. What amuses us, is how you seem to think that makes Scotland fans different from any other nation, oh..and then take a normal quick jab at how england at the worst. :rolleyes: And no...Scotland are not in it to win it. Like Bournemouth are not in the FA cup to win it. They are there to get as far as they can. They know for a FACT they aren't going to win..because there are small (in terms of skill) clubs and nations that at least have a CHANCE, such as Poland, Turkey, South Korea, Japan, and then there are just those in it to make up the numbers and see how far they can get. No disrespect to them, and sometimes, just sometimes, they make it big (al la serbia), but all realitic odds point to the same thing..but as you say, most of them don't care..it's not about going in it to win it for them, it's aout just being THERE that makes it worth while.

That's your way of enjoying it. Frankly, I think we'd all love to care that little, because it would be less painfull if we did go out. Football to England is our prideand joy. England centers around football. We have probably the best league in the world, most star players want to play in the premiership at least ONCE. We take our football very seriously, and everyone knows that.

However, it's not for you to try and make it seem like your way is somehow better than everyone elses, 'especially england' (your words, not mine ;) ). Very ignorant indeed to think like that.

England, whether right or wrong, take qualification for these cups as a given. We always qualify, and we know we're going to be in Euro 2008 and WC 2010. That is one of the reasons that simply being in the world cup isn't a big thing to us, it's expected, while for Scotland, it would be like winning the bloody thing....the theme song from 96' still sums it all up..."Don't come home too soon." They know they won't win, but it's nice to be along for the ride.


The bottom line is, while just being in it is somethign to savour in itself, it's come to the point now after so many times that we really should have been at least in the final of a major competition, and we've thrown it away...it's got to the point where we EXPECT to win it, we KNOW we can win it, and we want to see us win it. It's gone on so long now, that nothing below the semis will even be acceptable.

We have some of the best players in the world, and therefore should have one of the best teams. If we don't get at least to the semis this time, serious questions have to be asked as to why a team that houses candidates for the best defender, midfielder and strikers in the world isn't going on and actually taking the step to BEING the best in the world, and unfortunatly for him, it will probably land firmly on Svens shoulders.

[Darling]

*Sigh*

Player for player, we have a team that is not only capable of beating Brazil, but BETTER than them in a good few positions. They Don't have a John Terry, they don't have a Lampard, and they certainly don't have a Rooney.


No, Brazil have a Lucio, a Ronaldo, a Ronaldinio, a Kaka, an Adriano....:D

Please don't start with the whole "we're better than Brazil" argument. You aren't.

Also, this belief that you "know" you can win it is unfounded. You haven't performed well in a tournament since you held the Euro Championships in 96. Other than that England have always flattered to decieve.

Yes, by all means *believe* and hope you can win it, but there's a difference between that and *expecting* to win it. That's just misplaced arrogance.

[Chavvy]

How did a simple question get so out of hand? Some of you need to lighten up a bit*...

:D


* read as a fucking lot

[Garry3]

Yes, but it was either this or:

"3rd rnd lol"

"omgZ we will teh win"

"lol yeh"

I think I prefer the raging debate.

:D

[Chavvy]

I think I prefer the raging hard on.

:DLOL quote editorZed..

[Dingbat]

England, whether right or wrong, take qualification for these cups as a given. We always qualify, and we know we're going to be in Euro 2008 and WC 2010. That is one of the reasons that simply being in the world cup isn't a big thing to us, it's expected, while for Scotland, it would be like winning the bloody thing....the theme song from 96' still sums it all up..."Don't come home too soon." They know they won't win, but it's nice to be along for the ride.

OI!

That was 1998! :p

I think my point was more that you don't actually enjoy the tournaments because of this overenthusiastic belief that you are the best team in it.

And actually, you'll probably find that Scots fans are different to most others in that we have that bit more passion than the other teams who are just enjoying being there, but not so much that we get disillusioned and believe we're better than we are.

I'll go back to my raincheck and we'll see how things pan out. Come back to this thread on July 10th 2006 and boast if you've won.

[jonffm]

Yeah but..they;re really not. Scotland fans are EXACTLY the same as Irish fans. They never act any different, only Reb of Ireland have higher expectations. Both want to qualify, and realistically know they can't challenge with the big boys, but it still hurts both if they go out, because every national team has ALOT of passion behind it.

Poland, Turkey, Serbia now, all in the same boat. Passion behind the team without expectations. The England team just have to deal with both.

And I do enjoy it. By being so passionate about every game, and without being ignorant I do believe english fans are some of the most passionate in the world, it just means that little bit more every time we even score.

Hell, i'm an avid Liverpool fan, but if we score..i'm very happy, jump up..whatever...but when england score in a major compo, i'm sliding across the living room on my kneels screaming "YYYEEESSSSS, ROONEY YOU FUCKING BEAUTTTYYY!!!" ...opps, did I single out a certain player there? My mistake >_>

Honestly though..we havent had it this good in a long time. The team that will play is improved after 2004, and now we have backup, so an injury won't hurt our chances THAT much...unless it's Rooney. We're not resting EVERYTHING on the boy..but with him, ANYTHING is possible. He really is the best english striker I have seen in my lifetime, and after growing up with the likes of Shearer and Owen, and that he's a MANC and i'm a pool' supporter...that's damn impressive.

[Lakon]

I voted for the semi-finals. I'm kinda sick of England being tagged as a quarter-final team and nothing more. I think rash decisions by the management team, and sometimes the players on the field are what make us lose. We have the potential to win anything we enter. (More notably, the Swiss ref in the quarter-finals of Euro 2004 -_-).

I'm pretty optimistic that if Sven gets his act together, and we finally get a good squad together that can gel and understand how each other play, that we can get past the quarters for once, and maybe... just maybe, reach the final? Come on the England... *cough*