Euthanasia

[peter peter pie eater]

Should someone be allowed to take the decision to end their own life if their health impairs their life to the point they cannot live 'normally'?

Should people be allowed to help them, i.e. is assisted suicide ok, or is it murder?

Is euthanasia more morally acceptable than 'common or garden' suicide?

Should we have the right to choose how and when we die and why?

Debate away...

[Ked]

I did create the thread to this on the other forum, and yes, I am Pro Euthanasia.

If you were in so much pain and that the only thing keeping you alive was medicine, or surgery or whatever, then euthanasia should be an option.

If you can still speak but are severly ill, you then have full control of the choice, but it does become a problem when the choice is in someone elses hands.

If you cannot do anything to have a say about it, then theres a problem. It would then go down to the choice of someone else, and telling if you still want a chance to be cured, or be laid to rest, is a very hard thing to do.

So there would have to be tight restrictions on how it's done.

[Wahoo]

Well, i don't think people have the right to end their own lives cause they have had enough, and i don't think people have a right to help them, they have a reason to live and their families love them.

[Ked]

It's not just because they have had enough.

Let's see, if you have been ill for the past few years now, kept alive on drugs, having to be dosed up everyday, would you continue to live?

I know, that some people will stay strong and have hope that they can be cured one day, and that they will continue to lead a normal life.

But what for those that have had everything tried to help them out, and are now living on drugs each day? Euthanasia should be considered as an option, but as I said in my last post, there should be tight restrictions on it, so that euthanasia can be granted to those in real pain.

[Smeagle]

I'm completely for Euthanasia, given the correct circumstances.

What's the point of living if you're bed-ridden in hospital, pumped through with drugs, unable to move or think properly.

If there's no chance of recovery from that kind of existance, I don't see the point in prolonging the agony any more than necessary.

[Zuckuss]

Its fully acceptable to me although i agree with ked; you have to be able to make the choice yourself. No one should be allowed to choose whether someone else dies. But i also believe that one should think it over very carefully before committing to death.

[Anthropod]

I'm for it.
But there will be problems with the law I guess, some people would probably use it to not get in prison for a frag or two.
A lot of deaths will suddenly become something in the lines of "He wanted my stab him four times in the back and hurl him in front of a train after a few minutes of wrestling and bleeding."

I do think it would be stupid to not help one to take his/her/its life, but the law will probably have a few more loopholes.

[Death]

i guess im for it. i could elaborate, but put simply if it is down to you and you truly feel that you dont want to live through pain and you are considering the feelings of others when doing so, then it is your choice to make, case closed. the idea of 'playing god' and our 'right to take life' is for those who dabble in religion and for them alone. feel free to contest this because i have never been involved in a debate on this topic though it interests me to hear others opinions particularly those which oppose my own.

[Wahoo]

well you can do involuntary euthanasia where the you are being kept alive by machine only to breathe for you, and if the doctor feels that you are in so much pain that you are better off dying than being kept alive he can pull the plug on the machine.

[Insig]

How could someone determine whether or not you would be better off on the machine or dead? If there is the possibility of going to hell, I would postpone my death for as long as possible.

If the "assisted suicide" is just unplugging the machine you're hooked up to, I think it's alright since you die of "natural causes".

If you prop the person up so that their bodyweight pushes them into a leathal injection, then by all means it is practically a derivitive of commiting murder.

[Dr-Electro]

I seem to be back, now. :)

Ok, Euthanasia is defined as the harvesting or culling of undesirable members of a herd or society. That means that, as in "Logan's Run" people are killed by their society when they reach a certain age, simply to make room for the new babies being born.

I think it might be ok for cattle ranchers (unless you hate cattle ranchers) since it is part of their business to kill cows for meat. I wholeheartedly disagree with the concept of human euthanasia on the grounds that I hold human life particularly dear. People do not deserve to be murdered, regardless of the terms used to cover it up.

If a person commits suicide to escape the pain of a terminal illness, that is that person's affair and nobody else's. Leaving grieving family members behind is a moot point. When a suffering loved one passes away, I believe that it is nice that there is an end to the suffering. My parents died of cancer and suffered horribly. I felt a sense of release from them and a sense of relief at no longer having to witness their pain.

I hope I die peacefully in my sleep when my time comes. I have already had enough pain in my life, thank you. I will not, however, commit suicide. I am too damned stubborn to give up while there is an ounce of fight left in me.:ninja: Take that, death!:) :)

[Mystical Parrot]

people should be allowed to make up tehir own mind on whether they want to stay alive or not. if they dont want to stay alive then yes they should be helped to die but only if they're in the right state of mind. you cannot go out as a doctor and kill every person who wants to die, they may be emotionally unstable and if thats teh case then they need help. but if a person has got a terminal disease and they're in the very late stages so they'll soon be on thousands of drugs and loose the use of their limbs for example why shouldn't they be allowed to die prematurely if they want it?

[EasyTiger]

I also support Euthanasia.

I think that if a person is suffering, and basically being kept alive by a machine, what kind of life is that?

Originally posted by Wahoo
i don't think people have a right to help them, they have a reason to live and their families love them.

It's not just that person being hurt, it's their family being hurt seeing them suffer.

People say that suicide is selfish, because you're just thinking about yourself and not others around you, but in this case is it not suicide.

In that situation my family would whole-heartedly understand me wanting to end my life.
Why is it, do you think, that when Euthanasia illegally occurs in this country (UK) you usually hear about a close family member or friend being involved in it.

[Death]

Originally posted by Dr-Electro


Take that, death!:) :)

ok but ill be waiting for you :D

[rabid anarchist]

I am pro-euthanasia, so long as the person who's life it is can and does make the decision.
Again, your life, your choice.

And if you need someone to help you do that, then its upto them but i dont think it should be illegal.

THere was a case a while a go: a lady wanted to die, but couldnt do it herself because of disabilities and went to court to get permission to let her husband help her so he wouldnt get charged with murder.
They had talked it through, and both were willing.

The court didnt let them. I dont know what happened in the end.

But personally, i think the court should have.

*shrugs*

[Timoklon]

entirely dependant on the state of the person in question.

[Hydralisk]

Quite frankly, if you want to end your own life, then no-one, even your parents, should be allowed to stop you.

Its your life, you live how you wanna, even if you choose to end it at 20... or earlier...

No-one on this planet has the right to keep you alive, if you want to die.

Simply: ITS YOUR CHOICE

Fairly depressing subject this...

[PoofBird]

Originally posted by Hydralisk

No-one on this planet has the right to keep you alive, if you want to die.

Simply: ITS YOUR CHOICE

Fairly depressing subject this...

now you're talking about suicide, which is a different subject.

You would have a solid point, though,
if not for the fact that of all the suicides that are not succesfull, most of the people are glad they survived, and would be fairly pissed off (if at all possible) if they had succeeded.

it sounds dodgy, but there is always something to live for...

[rabid anarchist]

I hope so.

Why do people try to kill themselves if really they dont want to die?

I wouldnt unless i was certain.

[PoofBird]

they wanted to die when the made the attempt (apart from people that attempt as a cry for help)...

but as they recover, they'll often find they want to live on...
maybe not instantly, but over time.

especially below twenty: (you'll) get over it.

[rabid anarchist]

teen angst?

hm well, euthanasia. AS i said, i think you should be allowed to if you want but the decision shouldnt be made my others..

[Mat^]

i am very for it but i belive that before doing so there should be a time for them to think
then time for the famliys to learn to live will the knowlege that said family member will be no longer alive
before any thing happens

[James Twisleton]

I am against euthanasia. I don't think that people should be allowed to destroy the wonderfull gift of life God gave them, its selfish!

[EasyTiger]

If god gave them their life, then god would have taken it away, not had a machine be attached to them to keep them alive.

[rabid anarchist]

What happens if they dont have a Wonderful life?
What if they think it is so bad theyd rather end it and see if they end up in Heaven?

[Discrepancy]

I think people have a right if they're in horrible pain. Advanced forms of cancer, advanced mental illness, other physical illness that's quite painful. If they can make the decisions themselves, then that's fine.

However people that whine about how horrible their life is should not be allowed to commit suicide, they should just be forced to shut the fuck up.

[James Twisleton]

I suppose your right about the machine keeping them alive thing. I'm not against that kind of euthanasia, if they are never going to be the same again(e.g. brain dead) then I think its silly to keep them alive. We turned off my grandads life support. Its not worth keeping brain dead people alive (I'm a Christian by the way thats y i was immediatly against euthansia)

[Nihilus]

If you're in insupportable pain, you should have the choice to end it. Anyone see that doc. on the bloke who went over to Switzerland to get a lethal barbiturate dose to end his life? His wife and daughter went with him, held his hand, cried, agonized, but at the end of it all, they both supported his decision.

I've got M.S. If my life gets to a point where my disability and pain is such that nothing I can do will help, I will consider assisted suicide as an option. I think my family would support me.

The 'selfishness' argument works both ways. Wouldn't it be selfish of someone to force a loved one in incurable pain to live, so that they wouldn't suffer emotional pain themselves?

[Fruiterian]

I don't see why not. If you're terminally ill, tried all treatment options, and just can't handle the drugs and such and living off the machine, you should have the right to pull the plug. I wouldn't want to live bound to a hospital bed.

But I would think that the family would be happier... this person has been in pain and suffering. They're finally ending it for themselves. They will be missed, but if it's come to a certain point, where they can't talk or are in constant pain, it's probably for the better that they go away. They've survived until now. Death is natural, it will come sooner or later. Pain and agony, especially serious, and I don't mean I broke my ankle pain 'cause it doesn't hurt THAT much... not to me at least (see injuries thread), physical pain, especially for prolonged periods of time, is something that people shouldn't have to keep up with if they would've been dead without the technological wonders keeping them alive.

But it isn't the family's choice. It is the patient's life, not theirs.

As for teenage suicide... well, that's a whole other topic. Depression involves warped self image.

[Cainam]

I'm not so sure about the "selfish" arguement being used as a reason against this. Look at it this way: If someone that you really care about had an illness that is so bad that they don't have a life, because they are in constant pain, if it were possible would you sacrifice your own life to end their suffering? If you say yes, then why would you not allow them to do the same thing for themselves? An answer of no, in my opinion, is a better indication of selfishness.

My mom died of cancer, after fighting for several years and three operations. She went through agony. The reason thet she had to live through that was the medical treatment she got. At first, the treatments were certainly better than dying. She go to see her children graduate, get married, and start families of their own. But the last year of her life was a constant hell, and I am glad she isn't suffering any more.

We have the intelligence and knowlege to preserve life. I think we also need wisdom to know when to stop.

By the way, I don't believe in giving up without a fight. Not by a long way.

[Dr-Electro]

I'm a fighter. I have been a fighter all my life. Battle should have been my middle name, but Mom didn't expect me to be the fighter I have been.

But when there is no fight left, when all that is me is completely spent, when there is no activity in the brain, just let the remains go to dust. That is a natural and fitting end to the life of a warrior. Just don't unplug me before I've fought the final battle!

[MU||37]

Wow, beautifully said.

[rabid anarchist]

But some people do and want to be able to end their own lives.

So we should give them the choice?

[SemiCircle]

the hippocratic oath has to be taken into account, as well. the doctor is obliged to preserve life as far as possible. this means that he's not allowed to switch off the machine or give the lethal injection. t'would have to be a nurse or something, and the doctor has a moral dilemma from turning a blind eye.

you're not dying are you, dr e?

[rabid anarchist]

You could argue that as soon as you are born, you are slowly dying. OR when you have stopped growing/developing.

But I do hope gramps isnt dying yet :(

[Dr-Electro]

Don't be blue, my dear. I am far from dying. I intend to be here for a long time to come. :D

"Where there are battles yet to win, while there is still breath within,"

I yet live.

[PoofBird]

The Hippocratic oath is very old

Medicine has developed incredibly since then. Maybe the Oath should change a bit, to fit the modern needs.

[rabid anarchist]

like how?

what parts do you think should be changed, and what to?

[PoofBird]

From the oath, which deals with different things, I mean this part:

I will not give a fatal draught (drugs) to anyone if I am asked, nor will I suggest any such thing. Neither will I give a woman means to procure an abortion.

In the past, people who got ill, often died.
Even a hundred years ago.
Ask around in your family and friends, how many of them wouldn't have survived infancy, or would have died later, if they had been born 100 years ago...

The point is, people died, so doctor had to try everything in their power to protect and cure.

Nowadays we can cure most everything, so we no longer accept the idea that sometimes people die.
Our cures are so well developed, that the cure sometimes creates a new pain instead of curing the other.

People (and doctors) should learn and accept they cannot cure anything and the possibility to die in peace should be given to those who cannot be cured.

I've known a man who had cancer in his throat.
Different treatments had failed, and the doctors said he was going to die.
Because of the throat cancer, dying meant in his case: slowly by suffocation.
He asked permission to commit euthanasia, so he could say goodbye to his wife and two children in piece, without pain.
His request was denied.
He grew more afraid every day, and had increasing trouble breathing.
In the end, when his family was out shopping and he was home alone, he hung himself.
His daughter was the one to find him.

That is the reason why we need euthanasia: curing is not the only duty a doctor has, and dying with dignity should be possible for everyone.

[Piedude]

Who wants to die slowly and painfully? noone except david blaine

[Cainam]

The circumstances do need to be considered. I would guess that a .357 magnum to the head is a bit overboard when dealing with a broken leg. Short term things like bad cuts or illnesses that can be healed should be. Long term things, like the loss of an arm or blindness are traumatic, but the pain goes away, and the condition can be lived with. Those things do not justify euthanasia.
Illnesses or injurys that completely incapacitate someone with pain and suffering, permanantly, with no chance of getting better is something different.
I think part of the problem is the words used. 'EUTHANASIA' is what happens to pets, and we're talking about people here. 'ASSISTED SUICIDE' really doesn't sound any better, does it? Whatever you call it, ending long term physical pain by ending your own life is different than suicide in a physically healthy person.