Smartie
20-12-2006, 12:41 PM
As I just got asked this "Why are mince pies related to Xmas and why is holly associated with Xmas any special reasons", I thought I'd share my findings with everyone.
Of course I could just look at Wikipedia, but it's not always accurate.
Accumulated from several sources this is what I have:
Mince Pies:
As I understand it, it originally started as a way of making the meat last longer. People added fruit, spices and alcohol as a way of preserving the meat, and making it last longer. I think they were called bakemete (“baked meat” - latterly “sweetmeat”). They literally were minced meat pies, and were the size of a proper pie. King Henry 8th is documented as eating them.
Queen Victoria had a mince pie made for her by a master cook containing minced roast beef (remember she only died in 1901).
As society came out of the dark ages and habits changed and meat preservation improved there was no need to put meat in the pies (other than because people liked it), and so the pies became sweet, rather than savoury with more fruit and such things. I assume we have kept the name “mince” as a representation of the fact the pie is filled with small bits of lots of things.
I don’t know when they became bitesize.
For the record, Wikipedia says:
The origins of the mince pie begins with the medieval pastry, chewette which was either fried or baked. The "chewette" actually contained liver or chopped meat mixed with boiled eggs and ginger. Dried fruit and sweet ingredients would be added to the chewette's filling for variety. By the 16th century 'mince' or shred pie was considered a Christmas specialty. In the mid-17th century the liver and chopped meat was replaced by suet and meat products were no longer generally used in the 'mince' by the 19th century in both North America and Great Britain though traditional suet pies are still made it is no longer the dominant form.
Holly:
This IS associated with Christianity, the Romans, and indeed Islam too.
It represents celebration and good cheer.
The Romans used it to decorate their houses and temples for the Roman feast of Saturnalia (mid-winter feast). They gave each other holly as symbols of kindness and friendship, and this pre-dates any Christian associations. It’s ability to stay green in winter made it a favourite. So, essentially the use of Holly is Pagan.
As the Roman celebrations were in December, and Holly was already abundant and used decoratively, Christians sort of adopted Holly as a symbol of Christmas too.
Green is considered lucky in the Islamic tradition, and historically will have been given Holly (as an evergreen) as a gift to wish someone to have a lucky day.
Anyone got any other info about Christmas related stuff they'd like to share?
(I'll pre-empt the obvious "coca-cola invented the popular red & white jolly santa image in an advertising campain in the early 29th century")
Of course I could just look at Wikipedia, but it's not always accurate.
Accumulated from several sources this is what I have:
Mince Pies:
As I understand it, it originally started as a way of making the meat last longer. People added fruit, spices and alcohol as a way of preserving the meat, and making it last longer. I think they were called bakemete (“baked meat” - latterly “sweetmeat”). They literally were minced meat pies, and were the size of a proper pie. King Henry 8th is documented as eating them.
Queen Victoria had a mince pie made for her by a master cook containing minced roast beef (remember she only died in 1901).
As society came out of the dark ages and habits changed and meat preservation improved there was no need to put meat in the pies (other than because people liked it), and so the pies became sweet, rather than savoury with more fruit and such things. I assume we have kept the name “mince” as a representation of the fact the pie is filled with small bits of lots of things.
I don’t know when they became bitesize.
For the record, Wikipedia says:
The origins of the mince pie begins with the medieval pastry, chewette which was either fried or baked. The "chewette" actually contained liver or chopped meat mixed with boiled eggs and ginger. Dried fruit and sweet ingredients would be added to the chewette's filling for variety. By the 16th century 'mince' or shred pie was considered a Christmas specialty. In the mid-17th century the liver and chopped meat was replaced by suet and meat products were no longer generally used in the 'mince' by the 19th century in both North America and Great Britain though traditional suet pies are still made it is no longer the dominant form.
Holly:
This IS associated with Christianity, the Romans, and indeed Islam too.
It represents celebration and good cheer.
The Romans used it to decorate their houses and temples for the Roman feast of Saturnalia (mid-winter feast). They gave each other holly as symbols of kindness and friendship, and this pre-dates any Christian associations. It’s ability to stay green in winter made it a favourite. So, essentially the use of Holly is Pagan.
As the Roman celebrations were in December, and Holly was already abundant and used decoratively, Christians sort of adopted Holly as a symbol of Christmas too.
Green is considered lucky in the Islamic tradition, and historically will have been given Holly (as an evergreen) as a gift to wish someone to have a lucky day.
Anyone got any other info about Christmas related stuff they'd like to share?
(I'll pre-empt the obvious "coca-cola invented the popular red & white jolly santa image in an advertising campain in the early 29th century")