I think I want a Mac

[Mr Salek]

Can anyone tell me why?
It can't be Mitchell and Webb...

[Thunderjew]

They look good.
Smooth interface.
No viruses (might be some, i don't know really).
Comes with bundled software to start doing stuff.
It makes you look sophisticated and rich.
When you synchronize your iPod with your iBook while you talk in your iPhone and post in iLife at the same time, you can score any chick around.

[Mr Salek]

I'm looking at the $799 iMac.
I'm going to be just like Robert Webb and every computer owner on television!

[Rook]

Pros: as per the listings of Trollhammer.

Cons: all Mac users go to hell.


But seriously, unless it really has to be a laptop, get a desktop. Apple's laptops die after several years of use, and unlike desktops, they can't be healed so easily.

[piemastermike]

rook making sweeping generalisations there.

MacBooks look seriously sweet, perform, do the job. Why do you want the computer though? What do you want it for? Remember the incompatibility issues. If it's just to look trendy then die in a fire.

[Bappel]

I am thinking about a mac too. I've abandoned the whole PC and Linux idea and will focus on a mac that can handle music and the making of it.

[Mr Salek]

No, I want a computer for general use really. School work, and to run all kinds of software: Flash, Sibelius etc.

I've just heard that Macs are much better and I'd like to hear the general opinion of this forum. I've always wanted to give OS X a proper go.

[terrorbite]

Because everyone has them and they're really cool at the moment.

[Mr Salek]

In all honesty, I don't know anybody with one. Otherwise I would have asked them what it's like.

[Bappel]

I've asked a friend that have gone from Linux to mac and he says that its great. He told me that its easy to use and that its very stable. And the only virus he knew of was a virus you had to install yourself and click on its icon to start.
Macs are also alot better in preformence then windows computers and I've heard that they wont crash as much.

[Wigpat]

I personally would only get a Mac for music and media manipulation as that is essentially what they are designed for. If you just generally want something for general use a pc will do perfectly fine as long as you buy a decent one. As for the whole macs dont get viruses thing I'm betting with the huge simalarites between OS X and Vista they'll have viruses soon and no virus software to prtect them. But yeah this is just my personal opinion. I use them in college for music programming and recording but thats the only thing i like them for.

[Soapie]

But seriously, unless it really has to be a laptop, get a desktop. Apple's laptops die after several years of use, and unlike desktops, they can't be healed so easily.Yes.

Anyway, there's no reason not to get a Mac, but then again no real reason to.

I maintain, despite being a Mac user my entire life (or perhaps because of it, older versions of the Mac OS were absolutely bloody terrible), that there are not huge reliability differences, and one operating system is not quicker than the other. However, I think that the Mac OS is quicker by design, that's to say it's designed so that the human user can do stuff more easily.

If you're not looking to play games, then you'll probably be more than happy with a Mac. Of course, you will need all the best software (believe me, there is a ton of software out there for Mac, but a lot of it, same as Windows, is dire), and I can point you in the right direction as far as that's concerned.

EDIT: There are no huge similarities between OSX and Vista as far as the actual coding and bare bones of the OSs work. Also, you can get Norton for Mac, something called Virus Barrier and also a free virus checker called ClamXav.

[Midget]

for the operating system = yes

for the hardware = oh god no

my old ibook cost £700 brand new, had 1.33ghz processor, 512mb ram, 80gb hard drive

my new dell laptop cost me £500 brand new, has a 1.73ghz processor, 2gb ram, 120gb hard drive

i loved my mac but it just didn't perform enough for the price i paid

you're probably better off getting a regular laptop and dual booting vista and osx (i'm pretty sure this can be done, but i don't think it's legal and it probably isn't something an amateur should attempt)

[bionic sheep]

I was considering a Mac instead of my current lappy, primarily for the music software (logic i am glaring at you) and the nice OS, but I had to opt for the Dell in the end simply because I am a gamer.

Games don't tend to play with anything but the very high-end macs, as far as I'm aware.

[Bewildebeast]

If it's just to look trendy then die in a fire.
You'll want a Dell (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops/dell-laptop-explodes-in-flames-182257.php) for that

[doctor_fruitbat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqN76gYKHMs

I do quite like OSX though. The only problem is that the Macs themselves are fashion items and thus get a ridiculous markup.

[Tiggs]

You'll want a Dell (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops/dell-laptop-explodes-in-flames-182257.php) for that
Apple have had just as many battery problems you know. In fact, pretty much every single major laptop maker has had to issue product recalls due to batteries recently.

As for that iMac, only get one if you really need a small PC. The base model costs £680 and gets you a 1.82ghz processor, 512meg ram, 160gig hard drive, intergrated graphics and a 17" screen. If you compare that to a Dell Dimension 9200 which is £10 cheaper and gives you a 1.86ghz processor, 1gig ram, 320gig hard drive, nVidia 8600GTS graphics and a 20" screen, its not hard to see which would be the better buy.

[Bappel]

As for the whole macs dont get viruses thing I'm betting with the huge simalarites between OS X and Vista they'll have viruses soon and no virus software to prtect them.
That is where you are wrong. Just becouse vista and OS X look alike dont mean that they are alike! Learn your computer before saying such thing. Vista is based on MS-DOS and OS X is based on UNIX. 2 different things. A virus that works in windows wont work on a mac comp.

And those that produce viruses just seem to target windows users becouse its the most used.

How it looks have no relevence when it comes to operating systems. If they started to base mac OS on MS-DOS kernel it might catch the viruses. But as long as they wont they will not get any virus at all untill someone creates a virus for the UNIX kernel that mac OS is built upon.

[Bewildebeast]

Apple have had just as many battery problems you know. In fact, pretty much every single major laptop maker has had to issue product recalls due to batteries recently.
Yeah yeah, I know. Actually I'm on a Dell and my crotch isn't aflame yet. The photos are just cool :D

[The Grim Reaper]

Hardware is a bit overpriced, but i suppose they base it on the fact that OSX should run smoother than windows does, so the feel seems the same. Hard drive and RAM is no excuse though,you'd need plenty for video/music editing.

Be prepared to not play a lot of games i would think, and if you plan "to run all kinds of software" then a lot of them possibly wont have a mac port or just wont work, im not sure what the emulating situation is atm.

I also don't like people who get them to look 'trendy' either, you can stick an lower case i in front of anything and all of a sudden everyone wants one it seems.

Personally, i wouldn't ever have the need for one, as if i want unix style stability/security i'd go with linux or BSD, and if i want a blinding white case i'd just buy one. Not sure if two button mouses have become the standard yet either(welcome to 1990:p)

edit: as for battery problems, the ones that had issues were specific sony batteries iirc. These were in some macs as well as the dells. Dell seems to got most of the flak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sCY3THXA0Q) from it though, they probably used that type in most laptops.

[Soapie]

When comparing specs of Apples and the equivalent Windows-based computer, remember to factor in the fact you have £300 worth of screen in their computers.

Certainly in terms of laptops, you actually often get more for your money spec wise these days with Apple than Sony (what Apple generally do is put faster processors in, but only intergrated graphics, on the basis that people want graphics go for the MacBook Pros which are absoulte behemoths).

[The Grim Reaper]

£300 is a lot of screen, what sizes are you speaking of? Its $400 over here for a cheap 19" LCD or a good quality 17" and thats around £150 over there at most.

Not sure about over there, but over here Sony Vaios are a complete ripoff. At least double price than anything else, though the maximum specs go higher, and so does the price.

[Mr Salek]

Thanks for your responses, guys.

As it'll be the first computer that I am the sole owner of, I'm expecting myself to get curious and download more than before. I'm not an avid gamer, but is software generally widely available for Macs?

[piemastermike]

depends what kind of software you're after.

[Mr Salek]

What I mean is that I come across some random software on the Internet. Say a random exe file. Will it run on a Mac or will I need to download a separate version? If so, what are the likelyhoods of there being one?

I've been a PC user all my life so I'm totally oblivious to all this!

[Lewiji]

What I mean is that I come across some random software on the Internet. Say a random exe file. Will it run on a Mac or will I need to download a separate version? If so, what are the likelyhoods of there being one?

I've been a PC user all my life so I'm totally oblivious to all this!
Exe = windows executable. So no.

Most (if not all) open source projects will come with a Mac compiled version (or you can compile one yourself), but most closed freeware utilities won't have mac versions - you may find mac apps that do the same task however.

[Martinus]

That is where you are wrong. Just becouse vista and OS X look alike dont mean that they are alike! Learn your computer before saying such thing. Vista is based on MS-DOS and OS X is based on UNIX. 2 different things. A virus that works in windows wont work on a mac comp.

From what I understand of the progression of MS products Vista is, if anything, built upon win95. The command line interface hidden away in windows may use some of the same commands and syntax as DOS but it doesn't use the code of MSDOS which pretty much became defunct when int13 did. :)

[Bappel]

Ahh, as you tell I'm no god on what kernels and other what nots that OS's are built upon. But my point was that viruses cant infect mac os as long as its not based upon the same base as windows. Wigpat said that now when vista and OS X looks as much alike the viruses will come to OS X aswell. So i wanted to point that out they OSX was built upon Unix and Vista was not.

[terrorbite]

From what I understand of the progression of MS products Vista is, if anything, built upon win95. The command line interface hidden away in windows may use some of the same commands and syntax as DOS but it doesn't use the code of MSDOS which pretty much became defunct when int13 did. :)
Windows 2000, XP and Vista are built on Windows NT. None of their products use that 9x codebase any more.

[Bewildebeast]

What I mean is that I come across some random software on the Internet. Say a random exe file. Will it run on a Mac or will I need to download a separate version? If so, what are the likelyhoods of there being one?

I've been a PC user all my life so I'm totally oblivious to all this!
There is software that will let you run Windows software within OS X (like Parallels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallels_Desktop_for_Mac) - although you will still need a copy of Windows). Boot Camp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boot_Camp) will let you install Windows on a Mac and run it as you would on any other computer.

But as others have said, if you're mostly going to be running Windows stuff you may as well just get a non-Apple computer. It's not worth going for a Mac just for the hardware (pretty though it may be)

[Martinus]

Ahh, as you tell I'm no god on what kernels and other what nots that OS's are built upon. But my point was that viruses cant infect mac os as long as its not based upon the same base as windows. Wigpat said that now when vista and OS X looks as much alike the viruses will come to OS X aswell. So i wanted to point that out they OSX was built upon Unix and Vista was not.

You'd have to code a virus specifically for the OS, yes. Unix and its derivatives are inherently more secure than Windows. Not running processes as root until they're out of the sandbox is a real life-saver. Windows allowed the user to run all processes as admin with no warnings and no protection.

Although MS claimed that Vista is largely coded from scratch (citing it as a security improvement) it's well known that they use significant chunks of code from previous Win releases. The leaked XP code had references to Win95 in it. I suspect that Vista has large chunks of its predecessors' codebase.

[Tiggs]

When comparing specs of Apples and the equivalent Windows-based computer, remember to factor in the fact you have £300 worth of screen in their computers.
£300, defiantly not, at least with the models I was comparing. A quick spec comparison between the 17" iMac screen and the E207WFP that comes with the Dell 9200

Spec - Apple / Dell
Size - 17" / 20 "
Resolution - 1440 x 900 / 1680 x 1050
Contrast - 500:1 / 800:1
Brightness - 250 cd/m2 / 300 cd/m2
Viewing angles - 140°h/120°v / 160°h/160°v

Colour accuracy specs are very hard to define, but as both panels are TN film based (I know the Dell is, from the specs I assume the Apple is) they're not going to be the best in the world.

In short, yes the iMac comes with a screen, but so do most Dells, and Dell have a habit of making some very good screens.

[Midget]

What I mean is that I come across some random software on the Internet. Say a random exe file. Will it run on a Mac or will I need to download a separate version? If so, what are the likelyhoods of there being one?

I've been a PC user all my life so I'm totally oblivious to all this!
when i had my mac i didn't really have a lot of trouble finding software

there's a mac equivalent for nearly any software you can find really, just have a look on versiontracker now and you'll find lots and lots of software

however, some problems are;
1. there isn't a lot of freeware for macs, so if you do find an equivalent, you may have to pay for it
2. if you do find a freeware equivalent, there's a chance that it won't actually be very good (for example, there isn't a good free irc client for macs, they're all shit)
3. you probably won't find more specific software, for example i could never find mac equivalents of mobile phone software and it was always difficult to find file converters for some less used filetypes (3gp files, acc files, flac files etc)

[Martinus]

Is it not the case that a significant portion of *nix programs can be compiled for OSX?

*googles*

[Haroshi]

I've been using a Macs for eight years (my dad's a graphic designer),
the only time I ever use Windows is at school.
OS9 was a pain in the arse due to compatability,
but they came along way with OSX, making it more accesible.

I think when I go to uni I will probably buy a Windows laptop,
due to the lower price.

[The Grim Reaper]

So what was your main reason for getting a mac?
Security?
Speed?
Trendy? (i hope not)
Simple?

Plenty of positives for both sides, but if you plan on running windows programs, just get windows. Unless you have a fairly decent reason for getting one, and you dont have many reasons not to get one, then just get a windows computer and skin it if you like the look.
I think the compatibility issues are the biggest, and the hassle (imo) really wouldnt be worth it. Remember its much easier to upgrade a single part in a PC than a mac is.

However, if you plan on graphics, video or sound, then a mac is probably a good choice.

[Soapie]

1. there isn't a lot of freeware for macs, so if you do find an equivalent, you may have to pay for it
2. if you do find a freeware equivalent, there's a chance that it won't actually be very good (for example, there isn't a good free irc client for macs, they're all shit)
3. you probably won't find more specific software, for example i could never find mac equivalents of mobile phone software and it was always difficult to find file converters for some less used filetypes (3gp files, acc files, flac files etc)1) Only had that problem with a network printer driver
2) Colloquy (http://colloquy.info/)
3) Quick Time plays 3gp (QTpro will convert), you can get things to make it (and therefore iTunes) play flac or MacFlac will decode it into an .aiff that you can then re-encode as whatever, acc fair enough.

[Midget]

i've used colloquy and in my opinion it's shit, you have to pay for quicktime pro and tbh all of those those were just the examples i could think of, i'm sure there'll be other instances where those 3 points apply