UEFA Champions League 07/08

[Dingbat]

The groups, of course, were drawn today. Top seeds in caps, British teams in italics.

Group A
LIVERPOOL
Porto
Marseille
Besiktas

Group B
CHELSEA
Valencia
Schalke 04
Rosenborg

Group C
REAL MADRID
Werder Bremen
Lazio
Olympiakos

Group D
AC MILAN
Benfica
Celtic
Shaktar Donetsk

Group E
BARCELONA
Lyon
Stuttgart
Rangers

Group F
MANCHESTER UNITED
Roma
Sporting Lisbon
Dynamo Kiev

Group G
INTER MILAN
PSV Eindhoven
CSKA Moscow
Fenerbache

Group H
ARSENAL
Sevilla/AEK Athens
Steau Bucharest
SK Slavia Prague

Well, we're out... probably.

Thoughts?

[OKO]

I'm happy. I truthfully predicted every team in that draw earlier on. So - I'm pretty worried about myself right now.
I was most concerned about drawing Valencia - so I think we dodged a bullet there. Should be fairly straight forward if we perform on the nights - the only team we should struggle against is Sevilla.

[ynnekkenny]

i'd rather have seville than AEK due to the travelling aspect but yep as usual the "easiest" group for the British is Man Utd whereas Arsenal have a bit of an unhill struggle. ah well we'll do well hopefully

[Luna]

I feel sorry for Rangers.

[ynnekkenny]

im thinking i might go and see the Rangers - Barca match hopefully
but you cant really fell sorry for them they were in Pot 4 after all

[OKO]

I'm hoping to see Rangers dish out some rough and tough action on that Frenchman who used to play for us.
Terry someone?

[ynnekkenny]

I'm hoping to see Rangers dish out some rough and tough action on that Frenchman who used to play for us.
Terry someone?

i'll second that...

[jonffm]

Not like he did much for you - only won you a few titles.

ANyways, i'm happy with the draw. I wanted Marseille, and we avoided every team I wanted us to avoid. We should have no problem finishing top of this group.

Our squad depth could pay massive dividends in this competition this year.

[OKO]

Yeah, he did win us a few titles. But also made a very elaborate excuse to leave because David Dein had left, hm.
In other words; 'Fuck you, I can't be bothered to wait for a CL. I want to go glory hunting'.
>_>

But, I will agree with you Jonny that the depth of your squad should help you go to the end again, but winning it this year.

[Thomp]

If AEK beat Sevilla (highly unlikely), then Arsenal have a piss easy group.

[Flava Dave]

Arsenal got a great group. Sevilla should be tough but they'll be two fantastic games.

I can't say I agree with the Henry bashing, the guy wanted to leave. He wasn't exactly classy about it but he's still a legend.

[OKO]

I still have tonnes of respect for the guy. But however; he left us in such acrimonious circumstances and said the Vice Chairman leaving was his reason to depart, if he just said he wanted to go to Barca and play football there. I would have accepted it far more easily than I have done.

[Luna]

im thinking i might go and see the Rangers - Barca match hopefully
but you cant really fell sorry for them they were in Pot 4 after all

In my view they got the hardest draw. We all know about Barca, who now have Henry, plus the French and German champions. Nasty.

[Smidge91]

Chelsea got a decent group. Valencia are the only tough team team and we beat them last year.

[AngryPaul]

I heard the BBC News saying United got a good draw. I disagree.

We may have smashed Roma 7-1 at home, but that won't happen again. We also lost 2-1 at their place and it was lucky not to be more. Sporting are a tough team and the last time we played Kiev they were only about an inch away from knocking us out!

Plus they shuold know better considering how United have performed so far this season!

[Dingbat]

Crikey O'Reilly, mon cherie!

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44152000/jpg/_44152633_mccullochceleb270.jpg

LYON 0 - 3 RANGERS

:D

[AngryPaul]

Did they just use marker pen to cover your sponsor?

[Dingbat]

Masking tape I think.

[AngryPaul]

On another Scottish note, Dida needs to be punished. He is clearly trying to get Celtic in to more trouble than they will already be in for that fan.

If you haven't seen it, watch him being a dick at the end of the video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwhogFv-5uI&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Efootytube%2Ecom%2Fpage%2F2 %2F)

[Dingbat]

Of course the fan shouldn't have got on the pitch, but Dida is being a right twat. Hopefully he gets punished for that; it's really, really obvious that the fan just taps him, so he gets pissed off and gives chase, then thinks 'hmm, if i fall down maybe we can get this match thrown out on account of their fans' bad behaviour' and grabs his face.

[AngryPaul]

BUMP.

Cracking set of ties came out the pot for the Champions League knockout draws.

Celtic v Barcelona
Lyon v Manchester United
Schalke v Porto
Liverpool v Inter Milan
Roma v Real Madrid
Arsenal v AC Milan
Olympiakos v Chelsea
Fenerbahce v Sevilla

Chelsea have by far the easiest tie, followed by United. Celtic with give it a right goog ol' go, but I don't see them getting any further. Arsenal can give AC a game but those bastards just never go away quietly. A much improved Inter match up to Pool in a awesome round.

[Thomp]

I'd say United have it pretty tough, it won't be easy to go to Lyon and come away with a victory. It'll be a tight game for you.

Chelsea will make it to the last 8, I'm not too sure on everyone else. If Arsenal play to their potential, they could progress... but Liverpool and Celtic definitely have very tough ties.

[AngryPaul]

it won't be easy to go to Lyon and come away with a victory. It'll be a tight game for you.But they won't come to Old Trafford and get anything.

I can't see Arsenal getting anything out of AC Milan at all and Celtic might get a good result at home but they won't last away from Parkhead.

Chelsea will stroll into the next round and Liverpool-Inter is too tight for me to call.

[jonffm]

Unfortunatly, Inter were the team I wanted to avoid :( I wanted Madrid or Sevilla.

Arsenal are out - their attacking football will play right into Milans hands....it'll be a masacre, United showed what happens when you have a lax defense and attack AC Milan. They're too experienced and too strong in defense. Chelsea have the easy draw, but sometimes that throws you off because you start counting your chickens.

Man U won't find it easy, but I expect them to get through. Lyon arent to be taken lightly though.

[Dingbat]

Counting Arsenal out = 1bignono. I take your point but Wenger is a smart cookie - even if they do eventually get beaten, I don't think they'll be overwhelmed.

As for the rest: United have the easiest draw out of all the teams; Lyon are no longer as much of a competent underdog as they were a couple years ago but they are still a dangerous team (and we should know!). Celtic have faced Barcelona many times over the last few years but I still don't see them matching them. Liverpool have a dangerous tie to overcome but they have done this many times and are geared towards European competition more than anything.

[jonffm]

Agreed, you can't discount a team that won 7-0 in this competition not too long ago, but I think AC will have wanted an attacking team like Arsenal. They will get chances, but they're going to have to be extreamly clinical or they will lose badly - becase AC will score at least once at home.

Obviously thogh I want Arsenal to win. The less Italians the better.

[Thomp]

But they won't come to Old Trafford and get anything.

Didn't say they would, AP.


Arsenal are out - their attacking football will play right into Milans hands....it'll be a masacre, United showed what happens when you have a lax defense and attack AC Milan. They're too experienced and too strong in defense.

I don't think that's the case. Wenger has got his side playing some fantastic football, and against an ageing Milan team they could get through. If they manage to keep a clean sheet at home, then they are almost into the QF in my eyes.

[AngryPaul]

Didn't say they would, AP.Didn't say you did, Thomp.

What I meant was that although it will be tough I think it will all hinge on the game in Lyon. If they beat United then the chances of them getting something is greater as they can just park their asses in front of the goal for 90 minutes - not that guarentees a result, but we've seen it happen.

If they have to chase the game then United can simply break with pace and finish them off.

[AngryPaul]

1 Arsenal v Liverpool
2 AS Roma v Man Utd
3 Schalke 04 v FC Barcelona
4 Fenerbahce v Chelsea


Interesting draw. I'm glad Pool and Chelsea are apart - for now at least. United have an interesting draw. People may think its easy as we won 7-1 at this stage last year but they will be more than ready. We could take them at home, but the away leg could be difficult, as it was last year.

[jonffm]

Last roung I said I only wanted to avoid Inter. We get Inter. This round, I said I only wanted to avoid Arsenal, we get Arsenal. I said I didn't want ANOTHER Chelsea Semi as they're surely due a win....we get Chelsea drawn as our QF opponents in waiting....


WTF.


Oh well, it was never gunna be easy. Arsenal will be one hell of a test, but we've come through bigger obsticles over the last few years.

It's a draw though that BOTH Arsenal and Liverpool would have hoped to avoid.

[ynnekkenny]

yep definately didnt want liverpool but it's three matches in 6 days between the two and the first two are at the Emerates so it'll be and interesting few days.

[jonffm]

My prediction...Arse win 2-1 at the Emirates, we win 1-0 at Anfield :)

Anfield for the second leg is the key to this tie. If we can score, or keep it at 0-0, we really should go through...but even if we're 2-0 down, there isn't a team we can't beat 2-0 at Anfield on a European night.

[Nuclear Spoon]

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1095/indexphpactiondlattachtou5.jpg

Interesting...

[jonffm]

Dude, we're already talking about that.

[Mr stabby]

No he is saying someone told three of the draws before it happened.

[jonffm]

Oop, it's the Liverpool thread it's been mentioned in not this one.

But yeah, I know, everyone in the world EVER is talking about it.

[Flava Dave]

I was hoping we'd get Liverpool or Fenerbache or Shalke. I'm happy that Man U and Barca are on the other side of the draw.

[jonffm]

Hah, you rank Roma above us? Hopefully that arrogance is shared by your team ;)

But really, if you HOPE for Liverpool, you clearly haven't been paying attention for the past 3 seasons of Champions League football.

[Flava Dave]

It's hardly arrogance, I just think we'd have a better chance of beating Liverpool than other teams. Sorry man.

[jonffm]

Failing to see the logic of standing more chance of beating Liverpool, the only team to actually win the thing in recent years, and have preformed better over the course of the last 3 seasons than any team in Europe.

Rather than...say..Roma?

Arsenal have already beaten AC who are clearly the superior Italian team. The other Italian team of note being Inter who were beaten by yours truely...not to mention being one of the biggest walkovers any english team has probably ever had in the latter stages.


All i'll say about the match is that you'd better hope to god you kill the tie off at home. If it's like AC and you come to Anfield empty-handed, or even worse, losing - you'll be in for the toughest european night of your lives. This isn't like the Prem, Chelsea ransack us in the Prem but are alwways second best against us in Europe. It won't be like the Arsenal v Liverpool games we've seen before.

Underestimate Liverpool at your peril. Lets be honest mate, you've probably cheered at every draw Liverpool has got for the last few years? Italian champions, Dutch champions, Spanish champions, English champions....all have come and gone from Anfield, so for anyone to think we're one of the SOFT teams is absolutly absurd and is basically saying your team is superior to all those that have come and lost. Which is the very definition of arrogance ;)

However, that said, I think whoever wins this will have their name on the trophy. If Liverpool beat Arsenal, what other English team do we have to fear? If Arsenal beat Liverpool, the same applys because Liverpool are Englands most consistant European team of late.

Even if we lose, so long as the Chavs don't get to Moscow, i'll be happy. Whoever wins has the responcibility.

[Flava Dave]

Did you not see the Arsenal Liverpool match at anfield earlier this season?

I wasn't making some anti-Liverpool remark, I merely meant that of the eight teams left, Liverpool would be in the bottom four. But yeah I'm being arrogant, sorry.

[jonffm]

What of it? Liverpool not playing that well, yet the occasion seemed to cause Arsenal to only be able to scrape a draw? Thats your basis for beating us? :\ I did see the game before that though, when we beat you 4-1....

Prem games mean nothing when it comes to Europe. The chavs beat us 4-1 at Anfield the other season....remind me what happened to them later in that season? And the season after thattoo....Arsenal were great against AC, can't take that away from them - even though like Inter, they never really got above second gear - but we'll be a biggest test than that.


A big talking point though....since we play eachother three times in 6 days...will Rafa use the same strength team against Arsenal in the Prem? Of course not, he'll rotate...why would we, we're not challenging for the title. Arsenal, however, have to find a way of fielding a full strength team three times in 6 days because there is now WAY Wenger will sacrifice the Prem for Europe. Rotation may have cost us the league, but in Europe it'll be our ace in the hole. I'm just hoping Skrtel is up for the challenge.

There is also no way that Arsenal can play, say, Fabragas three times in 6 days and expect him to be fit. He's the key to all three games, eliminate him and Arsenal will struggle as we will utterly dominate the central midfield.

[Flava Dave]

That is a worry, if Gilberto gets near the pitch we're in trouble.

Oh, and I know bringing up the early season game was a bit pointless but "scraping a draw" is hardly an accurate description. Any why will Liverpool be a bigger test than AC Milan again? Liverpool sit back in European games, which suits Arsenal's style of play. That's why I didn't mind drawing them.

[jonffm]

Liverpool operate defensively before hitting teams on the counter. Look at the teams that have wom it in recent years....AC, Liverpool, Barca...if you watch them against the big teams, they do exactly the same. Approach the game with caution, then hit them with speed and clinical finishing. It's how European football is played.

Arsenal are more defensive than they are in the Prem, but they like to attack in Europe and I respect that. It's like Real in the 90's. However, while an attacking team can say that a defensive team is a perfect match...a counter-attacking team like us would argue the same. It's not going to come down to basics like that, it'll come to to key-one-on-one battles such as Gerrard/Fabregas, Carra/Ador, Torres/Gallas.

Remember, when you last played us, Torres was still finding his feet and was quickly out of the game through injury. This time, Torres is arguably the most in-form striker in Europe. He's our key to the game, as I don't think Arsenals defense will cope with him at all if you attack us and leave them exposed.

But you did scrape a draw. Yeah, you had chances are were probably the better team in the second half of an overall even game, but you still left it late and were lucky not to run out of time - plus the luck you had in two key players going off injured. A draw was fair, but you still were very close to losing.


End of the day though, one thing that is sure...if Arsenal and Liverpool have shown us anything in the last decade...THERE WILL BE GOALS.

[Flava Dave]

Arsenal dominated that game, man. And Torres was injured pretty early on, which was unfortunate for Liverpool. He's a great player.

"like Real in the 90s?" is a weird reference since Capello's defensive football was what brought them success. Who's Ador anyway?


Edit: but hey man I don't want to be an arse and start an argument, which I think I may be doing. I can't wait until that week in April. It's going to be fucking deadly.

[OKO]

It's an alright draw - playing Liverpool at Anfield though in the second leg could be crucial. But, it's not Barcelona or United, so. It's a relief in that sense, but in Europe, any team can win the CL when it gets down to the last 8. League form won't matter won bit, it's how we perform on the night. :/

[AngryPaul]

After all these worries about the pitch, Fergie makes a good point:

"I have no concerns about the pitch. Uefa have done their best to prepare it. You have to remind yourself that Old Trafford in February is not the best in the league and is probably the worst."

I don't agree with 'the worst' but its gets pretty bad during the winter. Stamford Bridge - albeit not so much recently - used to be a bloody beach November to Feburary.

[JimmywiT]

I'm cheering for the mancs because if Chelsea end the season without any silverware it will really cheer me up. I reckon If one of the sides gets an early goal it could be a very exciting game, but i can see it bieng a stalemate until either side nicks it. Hopefully it wont be a repeat of what happened when the met in the FA Cup final a year ago.

[Flava Dave]

I hope Claude Makelele wins.

[jonffm]

I'm a Liverpool fan, and I was watching that shootout as a Manc.

Chelsea will never command respect from me because of how they have gotten to where they are, so it was brilliant to see a REAL team win it, with players like Giggs - a true legend of the english game. Feel a little sorry for Terry though.


Money can't buy that :)

[Flava Dave]

That was a great game. I thought Chelsea probably deserved it over the 120 minutes. I was watching the shootout praying for everyone to miss.

Seeing John Terry and Ronaldo crying was beautiful.


Edit: Oh yeah, and Didier Drogba is a magnificent twat.

[Mr stabby]

Van Der Sar is a really bad penalty stopper.

I hoped Chelsea lost so they would end the season with nowt, but I kinda hoped Man Utd would lose so they didn't creep closer to Liverpool's record amount of titles+cups.

[Flava Dave]

Could do without the bleating about Munich.

[Mr stabby]

does this face look familiar?

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/536/terrytl3to1.jpg

[Explosivo]

Chelsea deserved it to be honest, and we need something to replace penalties.

Also the idea that Chelsea are the only team to have bought the majority of their players is pretty hilarious. Yes they have recently gained a lot of money, and yes they have recently bought a lot of players. But all they have done is the same thing as Man Utd and Arsenal and Liverpool but in a far more condensed period of time.

Also I like the way people call Ronaldo, Tevez, Drogba and co great players when they haven't an ounce of greatness in them. They are talented yes, but great players are far more than just talent. They are icons for the game, with great levels of sportsmanship and integrity.

[scram]

This may just be the seven pints talking but...

As a Chelsea fan I am relatively happy with the result.

After the first half we deserved to be at least 2-0 down and not 1-1.

To be fair, we picked it up in the second half and maintained it in extra time and based on that we should have won. But we were still so bad in the first half that it should never have gone to penalties and we should have lost.

Drogba should not have been given a straight red for his little chin grab. Yes, it's a physical confrontation with another player but it's not a punch or a shove and the ref should have exercised a bit of pragmatism a few minutes before a penalty shootout. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone Drogba's actions, but a straight red was severe for the offense.

As for the penalties, I was thrilled to see Ronaldo's saved and sympathetic to Terry for missing his. He's taken it square on his shoulders completely unnecessarily as I, for one, don't blame him at all for our loss. No, we deserved to lose overall based on our performance tonight and through our complete Champions League campaign.

Furthermore, a silverware-free season should mean that we can see the back of Baron Greenback and see a more suitable manager take hold of Chelsea - someone like Rijkaard.

Anyway - well done Man U - you kind of deserved it but at least we took you to the wire. After 120 minutes it was nobody's game and the unfortunate method of penalties decided things.

[BigShimmeryWall]

I doubt Rijkaard would work so well at Chelsea as I can't see him being able to command the respect from the dressing room that'd be required at a club with so many high profile players- that's part of why Barca had such problems this season.

I'm always impressed by how quickly people get Potatoshopping after any major event

http://i32.tinypic.com/2s9f2ir.jpg

But in all seriousness congrats to our boys and commiserations to the Chelsea guys, it was a bloody good match and you battled us all the way but I don't you envy the big changes that are on the horizon for the team, what with all the players being linked with moves away and Grant's future. Drogba's pretty much a cert to go now going by Roman's reaction to the red card.

[scram]

I doubt Rijkaard would work so well at Chelsea as I can't see him being able to command the respect from the dressing room that'd be required at a club with so many high profile players- that's part of why Barca had such problems this season.


Fair enough, but he's got to be better than Grant. I maintain my stance that the dressing room team talks and behind the scenes motivation at Chelsea are more to do with Steve Clarke than Baron Greenback.

At least Rijkaard has a passion for the game that shows during the matches. Otherwise, rumour would have it that Mancini is also in the running and I would gladly take him in place of Grant.

[AngryPaul]

Could do without the bleating about Munich.That was for The Babes :)

Also, this makes me happy:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44678000/jpg/_44678647_terry_tears.jpg

I'm sure Chelsea fans would say the same thing about Ronaldo.


edit/ Ok, now I don't feel so happy. I do feel sorry for him. :(

[MamboCat]

I'm soooooooo going to get yelled at but I thought it was a really boring match! XD Also, the amount of times they had to pause play to sort out scuffling players was ridiculous. Not to mention that red card was totally unnecessary. Premiership players should know better than that. I know in the heat of the most importance match of their seasons, things may get out of hand but they're professionals FFS. They should behave like it! :D

Anyways I wasn't entirely bothered who won, I'm an Everton supporter myself (*expects loads of negative rep for that admission! XD*) but I was expecting a good match at least. In a way I feel let down that it had to go to penalties. :(

[AngryPaul]

I'm soooooooo going to get yelled at but I thought it was a really boring match!You're entitled to your opinion and I imagine with nothing invested in the match it may have been boring. It was miles better than last years FA Cup Final, so that's a bonus. There we at least some goals, some controversy in the red card and some actual chances, and a bit of drama with the penalties as opposed to a scrappy snatched late goal.

I was watching it from a United view so I can't really see where you are coming from, but I think I can understand that it wasn't constant end-to-end stuff, but there was some fantastic football in it. Granted, the mentioned scuffling was a bit poor, as was Chelsea's (mainly Ballack's) barracking of the referee, but there was still plenty of quality on show.

[MamboCat]

a bit of drama with the penalties as opposed to a scrappy snatched late goal..


Yes, that is true. I can't stand scrappy, opportunistic goals. I guess most goals are an opportunity of some sort but I do prefer the ones that were set up with some skill as opposed to luck! XD Anyways, yes that was probably it: I pretty much chose not to root for either team. If I was at home watching it with my family I would probably have gone for United, seeing as my sister was a fan back in the day and sort of still is now, AFAIK. Maybe if I was cheering either team on it would have been better but what stood out for me was all the negative stuff. :(

[jonffm]

I've got no problem with J.T, and i'm not gunna mock the guy because he's gunna feel shit about that for the rest of his life, unless the Chavs win one in the next few years.

I just love the delicious irony of a team of overpaid prima-donnas losing it on a penalty taken by a player they paid stupid money for that can barely make the first team.

Oh, as I said to AP, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTz-EgcEupw

Charlton collecting his medal with World in Union blaring down the loud speakers was a beautifull moment for English football. True legend. Even a Liverpool fan here gave your boys a clap as they lifted the trophy ;)

[BigShimmeryWall]

http://i28.tinypic.com/ve16pi.gif :D

[Dingbat]

Why does everyone keep saying Terry slipped? He followed through too much on his penalty - if you look at the replay, his foot's still planted quite well 'til after he connects with the ball - but his actual fall didn't occur until after he'd actually taken the penalty.

[MamboCat]

As far as I could see, he slipped after he took the penalty. Not surprising considering how wet the turf must have been, it was totally pissing it down!

Anyways I love some of the photoshop piccies that have come out from it.... can't remember where I saw them though.

[Explosivo]

I heard that he got cramp in one of his legs mid shot and like straightened up or something

[ziggy]

I don't feel one bit sorry for Terry, he's a quality defender yes but then he goes and spits in Tevez's face, fights with refs etc.. Rio will be england cap'n

Oh and this is priceless;
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3084/grantcoleterrybeesca3.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[AngryPaul]

http://imagehustler.com/files/665/550yma.gif