Tipping: who, why and how much?

[argh]

I just read an article on msn.com that was about how much to tip, and I couldn't believe the replies some people gave.

Some people just don't seem to understand how tipping in restaurants is basically mandatory because the wait staff get paid at a lower wage than regular mininmum wage. It's understandable when you leave a bad tip if the service was bad, but some people said they would only tip if the service went "above and beyond", which is incredibly stupid because how can you define that? Also, they usually have to work very unsociable hours so you can eat and gab until 10 o'clock, does that concern you in your tipping (as in, if you take a long time, will you tip more, or the same)?

Other than restarants some people complained about or suggest tipping to other service workers, hairdressers, coffee shop workers, fast food places. I don't go to hairdressers (I cut my own hair or get friends to do it) but I can see tipping for them being for anything that wasn't downright bad, because they're on their feet all day, and if they converse with you, that IS going above and beyond what they have to do (just cut the hair, they don't HAVE to talk to you and let you vent about your day/week).

For fast food I think it'd depend, most chain fastfood places have good benifits (ever work at McDonalds? I love my McGold card, discounts at a ton of places) so they dicourage tipping, instead if people leave change, we were to put it in the charity jar. For smaller places, they usually have a tip jar which is a "if you have some extra change and you like the food, thats awesome but not necessary" type thing. I like those places, because when you put your change in them, the people usually look happy because they don't always get or expect it. Also, retail workers who make the same amount almost never get tips, even if they are with a client for an hour, is this fair?

Another point a serviceman made was he comes to your house to provide a service but doesn't get tipped, why should A. B. C.? I wouldn't give money to a service person becuase they make close to twice minimum wage (which puts them over the poverty line while most tipping professions make less than that, or long directly personal interaction i.e. massage therapist, hair dresser.) I would however offer them drinks, and a sandwich if they wanted, which is a nonmonetary type of tip I suppose.

Most of you are younger and probably not as concerned about tipping practices (unless you work in a tipping industry) but I'm sure it comes up (just less often). Is tipping out of control? Is it wrong that it's legally expected (why you can pay a waitress lower wages)? Do you frequently tip, or just ocassionally when you think about it?

[RobDonkey]

Well my family always tips at restaurants.

I wasn't aware it was mandatory.

[argh]

It's not mandatory, it's expected (sit down restaurants) and thats why there's a lower minimum wage in a lot of places for servers. Also, servers usually have to tip out around 3% (of total food and drink charges) to back of house, so if service bad, food good, you should try and give around that for the cooks and bar staff.

[Norbington]

Yeah I tip even if the waiter/waitress is shit because I'm British and proper and shit but I do it quite grudgingly.

Also I've never heard that waiters/waitresses get paid less than minimum wage. Surely that is illegal? Even if waitresses do get minimum wage, which I'm sure many do, I fail to see why they automatically deserve tips, as I have worked at 2 separate jobs, which paid minimum wage and required me to be on my feet all day. I never once received a tip for either and never expected one...

I do get quite pissed off if tips are added automatically to the bill total. Tipping is for service and I should not feel obligated to do so if the service is rubbish. I find that pretty straightforward.

Another point is that I have many a friend who has worked as a waiter/waitress who tells me that they feel cheated when they don't receive a tip even though they are more often then not on the same wages as myself or any number of my other friends who receive no tips whatsoever. It all seems pretty whingey, as far as I can see...

Let's not get started on the whole American system of tipping absolutely fucking everyone. That's ridiculous...

[argh]

It actually depends where you are if wait staff get the same pay or different, Ontario has seperate payscales, New brunswick and Nova Scotia don't (provinces where I've lived, I don't know for elsewhere) it was, in Ontario, a few dolalrs less an hour than regular minimum wage (it was also a few years ago, so it may be differnt).

I don't like automatic tipping on the bill unless it's for a large group, just because large groups tend to take up a lot of time, and a lot of effort from the wait staff and if they forget to tip, thats sucks (because of having to tip out for back of house).

[Norbington]

It actually depends where you are if wait staff get the same pay or different, Ontario has seperate payscales, New brunswick and Nova Scotia don't (provinces where I've lived, I don't know for elsewhere) it was, in Ontario, a few dolalrs less an hour than regular minimum wage (it was also a few years ago, so it may be differnt).

I don't like automatic tipping on the bill unless it's for a large group, just because large groups tend to take up a lot of time, and a lot of effort from the wait staff and if they forget to tip, thats sucks (because of having to tip out for back of house).

Oh right. Canada.

Minimum wage in England is a flat rate, I'm sure.

[mrsnuffles]

It's not mandatory, it's expected (sit down restaurants) and thats why there's a lower minimum wage in a lot of places for servers.

I don't think servers are paid a reduced wage in the UK, but I could be wrong. If this is true on your side of the pond, then yeah I suppose people should probably always tip.

If the waiter/waitress is really friendly I might tip them, but usually I don't.

I've had part-time jobs as a lifeguard and working in a call centre; both paid a bit over minimum wage. Both involve just as much 'customer service' as being a waiter. I've never been tipped and wouldn't expect to be. I don't really see the difference.

[Ozzylator]

I only tip if I feel the tippee deserves it. Because of the shocking customer service I normally experience, the only person really who gets a tip from me is my barber, Mario, because he deserves it.

[Urlosenged]

I disagree totally with the "service charge" that some places add to the bottom of a bill. It's my choice blah blah blah. But from what I've heard they can have a very stressful job, with some rude dickheads and having to cover a whole load of tables and that, so if they've managed to be friendly and the service has been alright, of course I'd tip them. Occasionally where I work (betting shop for those of you not stalking me) we get tips if someone wins quite a lot. You know, they win £500 or so, so they give us £10 or £20 to split between us. I don't understand that, I mean quite often I will have done nothing for them whatsoever and I'll get a tip. I might not even have been in the shop when they put it on! I don't complain of course, it makes me smile that there are such generous people out there. Anyway my point is the same as everyone's, but with an added half-story.

[livewirekitty]

Yeah I tip even if the waiter/waitress is shit because I'm British and proper and shit but I do it quite grudgingly.

Also I've never heard that waiters/waitresses get paid less than minimum wage. Surely that is illegal? Even if waitresses do get minimum wage, which I'm sure many do, I fail to see why they automatically deserve tips, as I have worked at 2 separate jobs, which paid minimum wage and required me to be on my feet all day. I never once received a tip for either and never expected one...

I do get quite pissed off if tips are added automatically to the bill total. Tipping is for service and I should not feel obligated to do so if the service is rubbish. I find that pretty straightforward.

Another point is that I have many a friend who has worked as a waiter/waitress who tells me that they feel cheated when they don't receive a tip even though they are more often then not on the same wages as myself or any number of my other friends who receive no tips whatsoever. It all seems pretty whingey, as far as I can see...

Let's not get started on the whole American system of tipping absolutely fucking everyone. That's ridiculous...

The point behind tips is to make up for the wage difference. The biggest part that sucks about it is the amount of transitory flow of money that occurs with a job that has most of the income made from tips. Sometimes the whineyness, can be brought on by the fact that earlier they were caught short with an unexpected expense.

Not all jobs in the US have gratuities included in the salary nor are they supposed to be. You can't tip the mailman, delivery drivers (non food), and some hospitality areas don't have a tip jar out there unless it's for a charity. If you tip the wrong person, it could be considered an insult.

Automatic tips should be used sparingly in my opinion. I don't want a sense of complacency created because the money is already there. Also, I can't stand when people try to get sympathy tips. I'm sorry that life sucks, but life isn't fair to a lot of people and you can't use that as an excuse to get a extra bit (yes I know people do, but that's another time and debate).

[Turkey Sandwich]

In theory, I agree with the 'Mr. Pink' view on tipping. Why should you automatically tip some people and not others? Waiting staff may have a demanding job, but so do lots of other people - fast food servers for instance, and not all places are as generous to their employees as McDonalds (whom I hear pay quite well). As far as I know, minimum wage is a fixed rate here in the UK, so I don't think there are any occasions when you would need to make up for poor pay. If they give you really good service, then yes, give them a bonus, but not just because 'it's expected'.

In practice though, I'm too nice for that and I do in fact tip quite well. Also so I don't look like a scrooge.

[Rook]

I have no real problem with tipping, provided the restaurant isn't one of those bastardised places that gives it's staff a 'tip' (based on performance) taken out of the food bill, then doesn't tell you, allowing you to tag an additional additional percentage on to the bill.

Such places may or may not just be the barstaurant my friend once worked at.

[woody_tng]

I have no real problem with tipping, provided the restaurant isn't one of those bastardised places that gives it's staff a 'tip' (based on performance) taken out of the food bill, then doesn't tell you, allowing you to tag an additional additional percentage on to the bill.

Such places may or may not just be the barstaurant my friend once worked at.

I believe that according to law they have to declare this on your bill, and you can refuse to pay this surcharge if the service is bad.

[Sloth]

you should always tip... and you should tip every chance you get... if you use cash and you have change... you should always put your change, well maybe just the coin, into any donation box at the counter if they have one.

yeah, you don't HAVE TO, but you don't have to eat out either...

Most places that do automatic gratuity are place like hotels, where they bill it to your room... or if you are a large party... but that is the minimum... you should always pay more than that...

The reason why I feel this way, in American, is because I would rather people enjoy and profit from a waiting job... rather than qutting and moving to some Sales job... that will somehow have them calling my office. They well ask for my boss (and always say his last name wrong). I have to tell them he is unavailable, and without them thanking for my time, they slam the phone on me.

BTW, Saturday i gave my waiter a $10 tip for a $37 tab.... and that is even after he forgot my salad.

[Jimmy]

In Australia we pretty much never tip [sucks cause im a waiter], and it really shocked me when I went to America that EVERYONE expects a tip. It's cause of their shitty coinage, I guess. [1 cent coins suck at life].

[tehmoogles]

you should always tip... and you should tip every chance you get... if you use cash and you have change... you should always put your change, well maybe just the coin, into any donation box at the counter if they have one.

yeah, you don't HAVE TO, but you don't have to eat out either...

Most places that do automatic gratuity are place like hotels, where they bill it to your room... or if you are a large party... but that is the minimum... you should always pay more than that...

The reason why I feel this way, in American, is because I would rather people enjoy and profit from a waiting job... rather than qutting and moving to some Sales job... that will somehow have them calling my office. They well ask for my boss (and always say his last name wrong). I have to tell them he is unavailable, and without them thanking for my time, they slam the phone on me.

BTW, Saturday i gave my waiter a $10 tip for a $37 tab.... and that is even after he forgot my salad.

Not everyone has that sort of money.

[albie_123]

In Australia we pretty much never tip [sucks cause im a waiter], and it really shocked me when I went to America that EVERYONE expects a tip. It's cause of their shitty coinage, I guess. [1 cent coins suck at life].
it's true

Over here if you tip someone, it's like giving them a hug and saying "Oh man, as far as waiters go, you are the best I've ever had, and frankly I don't know how I lived without you."

a bit of an exaggeration but yeah

[Jimmy]

I got $10 one christmas and I was all "Dude, you sure?" and he's all
"Yeah, man I'm cool. I have this kind of money cause I'm the Premier of South Australia." and then I'm all
"Shit dude, you are. Way to fuck up my school by not giving them the money you promised to give them to make our basketball courts flat instead of on a hill."

And then I took his tenner and put it in my breast [lol, breast] pocket and I walked away.

[Smartie]

Finland: Tips are not expected and is almost looked down upon (well, that I experienced anyway)
Rest of World: Wah give us yer munehs!


I'll tip if I feel the service has been above and beyond.
After all they are paid to serve people, and a tip is a bonus.
If everyone tips then the actual validity of tipping becomes moot - IE great service from you today, here's a tip. How can you know if you've done well or not if everyone tips you?

It is (whilst no doubt European in origin, even more probably with religious roots), i'm afraid tipping is a typically American thing to do, undoubtedly associated with displays of wealth. And I think it's disgraceful that workers in the US can be paid statutory minimum which is less than everyone else receives, just so they can make up the deficit with tips. This is surely a corporate tax dodge too?

I don't expect a bonus for coming in to work everyday and doing my job - that's what my WAGE is for. I'd expect a bonus for over-performing (I'd point out I don't expect a bonus at all) or doing additional duties.

[gembird]

I think that the reason people give tips in restaurants (at least in the UK) is because the waiting staff are mostly quite young, and so they get paid less than the other staff. Tipping is the only way they can get the same money as everyone else thanks to the tight-arsed chain restuarant employers who won't shell out more than minimum wage.

Having said that, I used to work in a fast food restaurant, and the people in my year who were waiters/waitresses used to complain about getting hardly any tips sometimes... they were getting paid more than me, plus tips on top, as I wasn't allowed to accept any tips. We weren't even allowed to have a charity box because of company regulations.

edit: I give a tip to the hairdresser if I'm paying by cash, and I leave a tip if I go to a restaurant and the service is good... last time I was in a large group we paid the service charge that was already added, but no extra tip, because they forgot somebody's starter- plus we were already paying a bloody tip.

[Twatybollocks]

Tipping in the UK is not part of the culture because we have a minimum wage policy to protect employees from sweatshop wages and because we are tight tards. Tips do happen but this is either because you are a regular and get to know the staff or you are drunk and think giving the pretty barmaid 50p extra is going to get you deep meaningful sex.

It was a bit of a culture shock when I first went to the US and you are expected to tip…everybody…or so it seems at first. Over there they have this 'official' theory. If you pay staff really rubbish wages and tell them the customers will pay the difference if you do a good job then this will force the quality of the service up. Nice theory but you're either good at your job and friendly or you stink and have a bad attitude. At the moment I think the guideline is an average tip should be 15% of the bill. Even for a dinner for two at a decent resteraunt this can be a lot of money and it's no wonder they automatically add it on to a party of 8 or more, they'd do a runner otherwise!

Tipping is, for me anyway, gratitude for good service. So if they get the order right, are friendly and the food is ok then they get the 15% from me. If anything deviates from that in a negative way they get less and yes I have left a couple of places without tipping. One waiter chased me out of the diner demanding his tip and I told him to his face his attitude stunk, he got the orders wrong repeatedly and he left us waiting for ages. I told him he was lucky I didn't report him to his manager. We didn't go back there…no doubt I would have ended up with loogies in my dinner…or more than normal anyway.

If the server goes above and beyond the call of duty then they get more than the average. It's as simple as that and the good servers who are naturally friendly and don't force it are so obvious, they stand out. I think if they removed the obligation to tip these people would still get tips.

Unofficially I'm sure the businesses support whole heartily the idea of tipping because it means they don't have to pay decent wages and can get their greedy hands on more profit. In that essence both the customer and the employee are getting screwed while the employers laugh and count their money. Yeah for tipping!

[noidtluom]

In Malaysia we never have to tip.
My father, who is a Canadian and often goes on overseas trips for his job, once forgot to tip a taxi driver. Quite understandably, of course, as he lives in a country where he doesn't need to tip.

Well, that didn't stop the taxi driver from shouting at him like crazy.

[piemastermike]

If I feel like the restaurant is pressuring me into tipping then i don't tip at all, however if I feel the service has been at least satisfactory I will tip and tip more depending on how much better than satisfactory it has been. The whole point in tipping is to reward the staff for good service and if it was shit, then why should they get my money? You also need to remember that tips are usually shared between kitchen staff too so if your meal was cooked perfectly but the service was less than you would have hoped for, still tip (if you feel it is justified!).

[faragher]

In the UK, I think that the tip pretty much has to be earned. So I expect good, attentive service. If that's the case I will tip 5ish% on top of the bill. If the service is excellent (friendly, but not too familiar; able to offer advice/recommendations on what is on the menu*; knows their stuff; makes sure everything happens promptly, but doesn't mind if I want to take my time), they got 10-15%, and they get told they are good and that they have earned it. I hope that this keeps them keen :)

In the US, you pretty much have to tip everyone who serves you, irrespective of the service. For a waiter, if they manage to bring your food to the table 5-10% is about right. If they remember to refil your drinks and manage to make small talk 10-15% is about right. If they actually provide decent service, then up to 50% is not unreasonable. At a bar, a dollar or two on every round is cool - though I usually tip $3-5 at the start of the night, and then every other round - that way you get decent service...

And tehmoogles - in the US, if you can't afford the tip, you don't go there to eat - it is consdered part of the cost of the meal, unlike in the UK where it is considered an additional cost. I have only not tipped once in the US, and that is when a waitress had a disagreement with her boss, walked over and whispered "fucking asshole" under her breath at the table - in front of me, my wife, the couple we were staying with and their 8 year old son. I told her why she was getting stiffed as well, which led to her calling me an asshole.

* I have a horrible habit (which my wife hates) of asking the waiter what is good on the menu. Anyone who answers "it all is" or similar does not know the menu - any one who recommends something gets my vote (as long as the something is good, and not just expensive).

[Timmeh]

It totally depends on how polite the serving staff are for me. I've only ever not tipped once and that was because they were rude and extremely slow. I'll normally tip 10%, sometimes more depending on how friendly and well mannered the staff are. For example, about a year ago I went to a random Indian restaurant in Derby (called Anoki - it was so good I still have their card in my wallet for when I end up near there again). Apart from the food being excellent, the waiters were all dressed immaculately, served food promptly and efficiently (when the table was ready to be served, around 8 waiters (I was only dining with one other person) would descend on you, kneel at the side of the table and dish up off trays held on the other knee - it was all so well rehearsed it was actually very enjoyable to watch) and available and eager to help, even if it was just to bring you more free water. I therefore tipped £20 on a £60 meal just because they very much earned it, hopefully it'll be an incentive to keep them working that hard and with that much enthusiasm in the future. If, however the serving staff are rude, slow and unhelpful, I see no reason to tip them at all, frankly I and most other people wouldn't get paid if they didn't do their job well or effectively, why should I encourage them to be careless and lazy?

Also, I only ever tip at restaurants and valets (which nobody has mentioned up to now I don't think), never fast food restaurants or hairdressers.

[argh]

Do you guys tip in coffee shops? For some reason here, everyone tips in Tim Hortons (cheap chain coffee shop) from the change they get back, but in higher priced coffee shops it's less common. I work in a coffee shop/convenience store so I get tips from the coffee shop side (and occassionally the convenience side, I dunno, people are happy when they buy cigarettes sometimes). I'm happy when I make tips and it's usually somewhere around 8 bucks (over 7 hours so I'm really just getting random quarters, nickles and dimes) what I'm unhappy with is people who assume a dish with these quarters nickles and dimes are a leave a penny take a penny type situation and take change out of it so they don't have to break a bill (especially since if someone within 15 cents of their purchase I'll usually take it out of my tips myself, I just mostly don't like the assumption).

[Timmeh]

Nope - but everything is considerably more expensive in the UK, really most people only tip waiters at sit down restaurants and valets. Most things are up to double the price here compared to America (wonderful exchange rate notwithstanding). I think it's the same in most of Europe, things are generally more expensive than the Americas and a tipping culture never got going as a result.

[-Amy-]

I don't often eat out, but when I do, I generally tip 5% if the food is good but the service isn't great, and 10 - 15% if the service is good as well. I think its polite and fair.

[argh]

Not everyone has that sort of money.

Just a point on this, I don't have very much money either, but I tip and I tip well because of how much crap people who work with have to put up with. In retail at least you pretty much never have to worry about people leaving half chewed food on plates, or having to keep a polite demenor when people complain about something being wrong with their food after their done eatting it.

[basstard]

Back in the UK I would rarely tip. In a restaurant I might consider it if the meal had been very good, or if the waiters had taken any interest in me as a human being. I'd never tip in pubs or bars, and very rarely in a coffee shop (if the barista made me laugh they'd get something).

Over here, it's not too different. It tends to be only the Americans on holiday that tip -and so if you look at all 'foreign' the servers will subtly push you for a tip. Which is odd, as waiters are generally a respected profession over here and pretty well paid. However, since Americans tip everything it's slowly osmosing into the national psyche that they can try for tips for anything.

Having said that I do tip at my local coffee shop here - one, because the woman who owns the place chops a euro off my drink's price 'cos I don't take cream and this is my way of saying 'thanks', and two because she's made an effort to learn my name, favourite drink (so I don't need to ask for it, just say 'the normal') and treats me humanly. So she gets whatever change I have / get that is less than a euro.


On another topic entirely, I do agree that the American 'minimum wage is lower because you get tips' idea is daft. However, it seems there's two sides to that coin - whilst a lot of people don't make enough because of that, on the flip side in generous areas you can make a fortune - I know a 21 year old student who's just bought a new Lotus Elise mainly through the money he's made as a part time waiter over the past few years.

[argh]

By the way, you are supposed to report your tips for tax purposes, and if you don't you can get in shit if you get audited, just not enought waiters get audited for the majority to get scared.

[Smokey]

The restaurant I ate at last night had a 10% service charge. Now I see this as a satisfactory amount to tip. It was good food, and it was good service. However, I wouldn't leave a voluntary tip ontop of the service charge and I do feel that the concept of a service charge is not right.

A service charge is a way of demanding money for doing your job. Imagine if you went to the supermarket and your cashier charged you 10% for scanning your items, and maybe packing your bags. You wouldn't be happy. However, a voluntary donation is not as invasive.

It is an interesting culture though that one group of people doing their minimum wage job is deamed worthy of a bonus (eg. waiting staff) whilst others do not (eg. street cleaners).

[Hitpoint]

I go by the Dwight Schrute code of tipping: If I could do the act myself I don't tip. Unless of course they are really pleasant and helpful, and then I'd only give about a quid max.

[Felix Barry]

I'm lucky to have worked as a waiter before.... Personally I think the idea of a service charge is quite rude on the part of the restaurant.... Not everyone is going to be satisfied with the service, so why should everyone pay it?.....

For starters, on average when one eats in a restaurant, it costs on average €35 per person without a service charge.... On average this service charge is 10%, which means your bill is now, €38.50....

Now my most recent romantic dinner had this service charge in place.... While the food was great, it didn't make up for the waiters and waitresses.... When out on a romantic evening with one's gf, one doesn't like to be asked if everything is ok every 2 seconds.... What's worse is, we had ordered a very nice wine, and the waiter kept topping it up over and over without even asking....

Dear Restaurant Owners and staff of the world,

LEAVE ME ALONE YOU ANNOYING PEOPLE!

Elephant Bandit

When the prices for the food include labour and everything, and even a mark up for no reason other than the restaurant can add a mark up.... So why the hell should I pay for my food AND the privelege of being harassed?

[Gabber-Baby]

I usually tip about 10% if i eat out, but only if the food/service is good.

Me and the boyfriend went out with a couple of mates to this small chinese resturant in Brighton, the food was pretty tasteless to be honest, when we got the bill we were asked for a service charge but we refused to pay it because we didnt enjoy the food, which is fair enough.

Before we went to leave the restaurant, one of the waiters came upto us and told us we had forgotten the service charge and then proceeded to ask us why. Kinda rude, so we were blunt about it and said "your food was shit."

So yeah, i wouldnt leave a restaurant without tipping because we all know the waiting staff work hard etc etc , but demanding a service charge is a bit much.

[Soapie]

I generally tip at meals 10% and to the nearest pound. No idea why, that's just how I do it, especially if they ask for the tip on the bill. I also tip taxi drivers by rounding up to the nearest pound. I will occasional put some or all of my change into the plastic container by the till at Starbucks. Oh and if "keep the change" counts as a tip at shops in general, I often do that.

Obviously good service has to be part of the parcel.

[woody_tng]

Oh and if "keep the change" counts as a tip at shops in general, I often do that.
Sorry but that money will usually end up in the shop safe.

[Soapie]

Sorry but that money will usually end up in the shop safe.The shop safe?

I work at a shop and we only have one safe. If someone ever says keep the change to me I imagine I'd probably pocket it and pop it in a charity collection box or something later.

[Nicodemus]

In the US, the current minimum wage is $5.85/hr. The average waiter makes rough $2.50/hr. That merit of that fact can, of course, be debated. However, it is a fact, and a major contributing factor as to why tipping is expected for wait staff in the States.

And by the way, tipping over 35-40% of the tab can be considered insulting, because it appears you're throwing your money around.

My tip starts at 15%. That's for completely average service. For everything you forget to do, it decreases by an amount commensurate with that it was you forgot. If you forget to refill drinks, that's -2%. Get my order wrong, forget my appetizer, or bring all my courses on top of each other (I hate that!), -7%. Forget to clear my table, -5%. If you fail on three or more things, you will probably lose your tip. Why? Because you're not doing your job. However, if you are very personable, accurate, and have good timing, I will tip up to 30%.

I tip other services (massage) because contrary to popular belief, unless the therapist has their own practice, they're not getting all the money you paid for the massage. Also, as a side note, it is considered uncouth to tip the owner of a spa/massage establishment (they ARE getting all the money you paid for the service). I will also tip a tattoo artist if they do an exceptional job.

[Tyris]

Some people just don't seem to understand how tipping in restaurants is basically mandatoryAs soon as it's mandatory, it's no longer tipping. What a tip is is an optional extra left for good service. It can't be mandatory and optional.

but that is the minimum... you should always pay more than that...You've just contradicted yourself. "Minimum" means "that or more", not just "more".


Anyway... tipping. Silly practice, but not nearly as silly as going to a restaurant in the first place. As long as you're paying the exorbitant prices like that, what's 20% more?

[argh]

I meant in places where the minium wage is lower for service staff.

[patch]

I understand why tipping is the done thing in the U.S and other countries, but in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales, I think it is a load of nonsense. I disagree with it because it, in my opinion is taking the piss!! There is a standard minimum wage, and not called for, a scam if you will. This is exactly how i would describe "service charges", I totally agree with Tyris, it's a silly practice!!

[MLynas]

There's a brilliant quote on the wall in a pub I sometimes go to that says.

"A tip is paying someone to do a job you didn't ask them to."

I think that hits the nail on the head. I tip if I feel I've been given extraordinary service...ie someone has stepped above their job description to make you happy.

Never tip a late taxi or pizza!

[Thunderjew]

On this subject, i feel like Mr. Pink from Reservoir Dogs.

[Sewer Side Cafe]

Ok in America and Canada, and other places of crappy wages, i can understand the whole "tip cause they need it" thing. But, here in England, i don't see the need to tip. Unless of course it's very good service. You don't tip a mechanic when he fixes your car, because that's what he was payed to do i the first f*cking place. Same goes for waiting staff. Unless they've done something extra good (like, say giving you a complimantary drink whilst you wait for your meal that's late). Only then should you tip. And if you do feel the need to tip, make it appropriate. Just tip a little automatically, and go up in increments for quality of service.

[Jack]

I don't tip for anything unless they do a really exceptional job. Wages for jobs like waiters and waitresses are set with tips in mind, if everybody stopped tipping at once wages would go up pretty quickly I think. Also my mate Nick delivers pizzas for Dominos and he hasn't bothered getting a proper job because he makes a mint on tips. Tipping is stopping people from realising their full potential and is, as such, immoral.

[Shiyiya]

Sorry for bump but I have a fair bit to add to this.

Okay, guys, if you don't tip at your hairsyylists, unless you go to a mad expensive hair salon (or maybe a mad cheap one where the stylists are employees and don't rent their stations), please do. hair stylists tend to make a fairly large protion of their income from tips. (I'm not speaking for like cost cutters, I wouldn't know. My mother works at a 'Salon and Day Spa'.) My mother charges barely enough over the cost of her product to pay the rent on her station. Tips are a huge part of the money hairstylists make. They deserve their tips too. What my mum charges, she comes out to earning quite a bit less than minimum wage. And hairstylists are lovely people who will talk with you about your life for free, which deserves a tip for listening to people bitch. Also, you try standing up all day to work. My mum has had so many foot surgeries, it's not even funny.

Yes, tips are fairly mandatory in the US, you are expected to tip 10-15% if the service was at least decent. Minimum wage is only $6.75 an hour, incidentally.

I have never had the occasion to tip a valet, so dunno what I'd do thin that case. However, I always tip the pizza delivery guy my change. (I buy about $8.50 worth of food and pay with a ten or two fives. I figure he's out running aobut, he can have it.)

Oh, and I've never heard of minimum wage being lower because of tips. Could be true here though I don't know. None of the people at my school getting jobs mentioned it tohugh.

[B34N]

I hardly ever get into a situation where I have to tip.

I know all the taxi drivers, they wont accept my tips lol. (they claim to make enough anyway, whenever they're buying stuff they have a WAD)

I bought a dominoes today (while i was working, got it delivered and everything) and it came to £13.75 so i told him to keep the change of £14, why should i tip him. Other people are stupid enough and i was polite, if he didn't like the fact that I'm not throwing money at him he should get a job as a stripper.

[Mr stabby]

I'll round up to the quid when I get my hair cut, and when we eat out we round up to the nearest five, unless its like £34.10 then we'll chuck a bit extra in there.

But tbh we only eat out at one place, our favourite Indian restaurant, and they treat us great so we always make sure we leave a little bit extra for them.

[El Kabong]

Wouldn't it be illegal to pay servers below minimum wage? Like...it's the bare minimum. You can't pay lower than that.

[Sorcha]

Being Australian I don't really understand this whole tipping thing.

We don't tip here... everyone gets paid enough that asking to get a tip is considered greedy.

Less tipping = More time to drink beer rather than worry about money.

IMO, should just pay waiters more.

[MamboCat]

I always tip at restaurants but when it comes to places like Pizza Hut and Nandos, I'm not so sure if its appropriate given that they are technically fast food outlets but I will tip if I'm given good service.

I also will tip a hairdresser if I'm given good service. One time I had my hair cut in my parents' hometown and the woman was a complete bitch, was really harsh with my head when she washed my hair, threw my head around when she was drying it and didn't say a word to me the entire time I was there! It was pretty much like that woman in the ole Direct Line advert... so yeah, I didn't tip her!! :D The place where I get my hair cut here has really friendly people so I do tip them...

I never tip taxi drivers but I am unsure if I should... here in Brum they will always add an extra charge when you first get in the taxi so I think that's pretty much to cover a tip.

[monkyvirus]

I always tip 10% at restaurants but only if I like the service if not I don't bother. I tip my hairdresser as I have an unnatural fear of them because they have scissors near your ears so I tip to placate them I guess...

I think tipping is more of a cultural thing I mean you don't tip in Japanese restaurants for example. I tip friendly cab-drivers too and delivery guys but I was brought up to tip people so I do it automatically. I guess its just something you do but obviously if I need the money or the service is crap I have no problem just paying the bare minimum (also shouldn't service be covered with the food? Why do they charge it seperately sometimes?)

[Charming]

All I remember about tipping is some waiter who was really rude and tried to finish my grandad's sentence for him:

Gramps: so are you psychic then?

Waiter (being a smartass): yeah, actually.

Gramps: oh good, you know you're not getting a tip then.

Waiter: ...

Pure class :D

[Midget]

i never tip

i'm probably a bad person

[gembird]

When I go out for a meal with friends we usually all round up what we had to the next pound, then by the time everyone has put their money in there's a decent amount left over for a tip. If I'm with my boyfriend, we generally pay by card but then one of us will always have change from buying cinema tickets or something, so we leave a little bit behind if we've had good service. When it comes to hairdressers, I tend not to tip because it costs me a fair bit of money to get my hair done (my own fault for wanting black and pink hair I suppose) but I'm a pretty loyal customer and I even buy all my temporary pink dye from them so I think they get plenty of my money already :p

My family aren't really into tipping, possibly because all the adults grew up with very little money and they're not used to being able to go out and give someone extra money. Either that or they're just tight.

[00string]

I'm Norwegian (honest), and tipping there is mostly seen as a foreign thing.

I don't see the sense in having to resort to tipping as a way to earn enough money. I mean, isn't it the employers responsibility to charge enough from the customers in order to cover the wages for the employees?

Although I do tip when I feel someone deserves it (and because i feel the peer pressure living here in England), I can't help feeling that its in essence double charging of some sort.

[monkyvirus]

Although I do tip when I feel someone deserves it (and because i feel the peer pressure living here in England)

Anyone else get that? seriously when I don't tip an I'm with my mates (cause they're loaded and they KNOW i never have any money) its like everyone is judging you... My friends don't mind, sometimes they even pay my share of the whole tipping thing but the waiters glare at me and you get this weird feeling that people are tutting you and shaking their heads on the next table. Is this peer pressure psychological born of my guilty conscience? Or do you think other people actually think your a bad person if you don't tip?

[gembird]

I don't mind if people don't tip because there was bad service or because they can't afford to spend any more money, but if they're just being a cockbag about it then I will think less of them. That's probably more to do with them being a cockbag than the not tipping though.

[BlueIncaPilot]

I'm never in a situation were I feel it's necassary to tip. I pay with £40 when I have my hair done but let her keep the £1.50 change because it's only £38.50, and I only do that because my mum used to pay it so I'd feel a bit of a scrounger if I accepted my change. I don't mind though, hairdressers have to work such horribly long hours I think they deserve it.

And if you're wondering I happen to disagree with mr. pink on his stance on tipping in food service areas :p

[Purple Wabbit]

I don't tip. It's just my thing; while I appreciate the problem with minimum wage etc in America, here in the UK that's not a problem, so why should I pay a person for doing their job on top of what they're already getting paid for doing it.

I'm a student. I work in a bar. I make barely over minimum wage. Occasionally I get tipped, most times I don't. While it's nice when I get tips, I have never expected to get them - people are out to have a good time, not to waste all their money on giving me pocket change when I already get paid for serving them anyway. I like to think that my job is to procide good bar service to customers, not that good service is an optional extra i can throw in at leisure that deserves a bonus.

I sympathise with anyone with crappy jobs and crappy pay who relies on tips to survive, I truly do, but harsh as it may be, my view is if your job is as crap as that, find a new one. It is up to the companies to pay their employees well, not the customers to subsidise their earnings because the companies are greedy arseholes. As a worker, I would not put up with that, and as a customer I will not put up with that. Therefore I don't tip.

Having said that, if wait staff give exceptional service, I will leave them something if it is within my power to do so and I will inform them of the fact that they have impressed me. But good service should be a given, not reliant on whether you're willing to fork out extra.

[bionic sheep]

I really feel the arse-end of the tipping paradox where I work - a fish and chip shop, with a restaurant attached.

When I'm working over on the restaurant side, even if I'm just washing up, I usually earn an extra £10+ on top of my weekly wages - a significant amount for the amount of work I do. But when I'm working on the takeaway side, we never get tips. There's not even a tip jar. There's one regular who tips, and it's much appreciated, but even then it's usually only a pound or two, which we tend to chuck in the charity box rather than split between us.

It's a real strange situation.

[shrubbery]

Has anyone else found that if a bar is busy tipping can endear the person to you resulting in faster service next time you go that way? Seems to work for me sometimes... not that tipping should really be a selfish act but hey...

[Purple Wabbit]

From experience working behind a bar, I don't tend to serve people dependant on who's tipped me - if it's a really busy night I'm probably too frazzled to remember stuff like that. It becomes a case of 'get drink, put money in till, look up and serve first person you see' - contrary to popular belief most bar staff don't make a conscious effort to ignore certain people, it just happens when you're swamped.

On the other hand, I guess if I did see someone who I remembered had tipped me I might make an attempt to serve them faster. I don't remember ever having been in the situation to be honest.

[shrubbery]

Maybe I just get the impression it is helping when in fact it is making no difference whatsoever. Could be my imagination, but its one of those situations where I can't prove it right or wrong because there are too many potential variables, I can't just change one.

I also noticed today that a Costas near me has a tip jar which they donate to charity. Is that a normal procedure for that kind of place or a one off?

[EnglishDiamond]

10% (rounded up to the nearest whole or .50 (unless its like £1.1 i have to tip) on whatever im going to tip on, that is Hairdressers, Restraunts and when i have a takeaway deliverd (i dont go and get massages or have them come or anything fancy like that but that is another thing id tip on). I WONT tip in a restraunt if the service is crap and the same goes for a hair cut, for example its all uneven becuase then i have to spend MORE money elsewere to get it corrected.

But generaly people seem to be happy with 10%

[scram]

Sorry to bump, but I was about to start a topic on this and decided to search first - how lucky that there is an existing debate in place. That said, my post is about the service charge and not the tip.

I am finding it increasingly annoying when I go into restaurants now and, upon receipt of the bill, see the words "optional service charge - 12.5%" at the bottom of the itemised list like some perverse VAT addition to my meal charge. To clarify, the optional service charge annoys me for the following reasons:

1) It's not particularly optional - by this I mean that on the two occasions in the past when I have asked to not pay the service charge, it has caused problems - the first time when none of the waiting staff knew how to "make the machine take it off" and the second when the staff got affronted and demanded to ask why I was refusing to pay. Leaving a tip or gratuity is something you actively choose to do as a customer and is a positive action. To not pay a service charge you have to make a negative change to the normal and can potentially be made to feel uncomfortable in this choice.

2) It defies the point of tipping - if I have enjoyed good service from my particular waiter/waitress I will tip highly. If I have been served by an obnoxious cretin I will tip very low or not at all (actually in those cases, I prefer to leave a plate full of coppers for a giggle). What I mean is that the tip you give is proportionate to the quality of service you receive and should go to the person who has given you that service. As far as I am aware, the way service charges work is that they are divided up equally at the end of the night amongst all the waiting staff. This is unfair for a few reasons - firstly it means that the best waiting staff and the worst get the same reward, defying the point of tipping. Secondly, as the restaurant sets the rate of the service charge, most customers will just pay the service charge and be done with it even if they would have been more likely to tip higher if the choice were left in their hands (generally I tip 15-20% for good service when I am given the choice but, when there's a service charge, I don't adjust my tip as a matter of principle).

3) People get conned into double tipping - now this is the one which has got me the most annoyed as it has happened several times recently when I have been out with friends - we've split the bill and the service charge on our cards and then as we get ready to leave, my friends have dug through their purses/wallets for some change to leave as a tip and encouraged me to do so too. In each case, the service has been relatively mediocre and I've explained that leaving further tips is not justified and convinced them to put their money away. In one case, a £45 meal would have ended up at £60 with the service charge and the tip which my friend was proposing to add - a tip of 33% for a lunch at Pizza Express? I don't think so. This point I see further as one where people are being conned out of their money unnecessarily because they are enjoying themselves too much, too drunk, too touristy and used to tipping at home, to read the small print and consider how much of the money they are handing over is going as a tip. Exploitation of customers, if you will.


To summarise, I am a strong advocate of tipping - I think that service staff who are paid low wages should get what is due to them from the customers they serve. But that swings both ways - if you give me poor service I should be allowed to not leave you a tip without having to ask you, the staff, for your permission to not pay it. The service charge, which seems to be added to every restaurant bill I see now, is unfair to quality waiting staff and doesn't encourage staff to deliver high standards as they will get the same tip at the end of the night regardless.

Whilst I understand (but strongly disagree with) the argument that "Us Brits are really bad at tipping and we need to ensure that our waiting staff can earn enough to live on", I think that the service charge is an immensely flawed solution and screws the customer and the staff royally.

[Smartie]

As far as I'm aware, adding a service charge to a bill is illegal without consent.
So it doesn't matter how much they can try and put it on you can request it's removal.
And people shouldn't be afraid to ask for it to be taken off.

The only instance it's legal is if it's stated before hand (like where some businesses state a charge is added for x people or more, and you know in advance).

I disagree with tipping unless service has been exceptional.
I don't get paid extra for going to work everyday, so why should serving staff?
I am always exceptionally polite to people that serve me, which I believe is courtesy enough in most circumstances.

[argh]

I just thought of another time I tip extra, if I see other people give them crap and know their trying to still be nice.

Like when a person starts going off about a meal being cooked wrong (instead of just mentioning it and asking for it to be fixed) because the waiter surely has done it on purpose.

[faragher]

From experience working behind a bar, I don't tend to serve people dependant on who's tipped me - if it's a really busy night I'm probably too frazzled to remember stuff like that. It becomes a case of 'get drink, put money in till, look up and serve first person you see' - contrary to popular belief most bar staff don't make a conscious effort to ignore certain people, it just happens when you're swamped.

On the other hand, I guess if I did see someone who I remembered had tipped me I might make an attempt to serve them faster. I don't remember ever having been in the situation to be honest.When I worked in pubs (in the UK), I made sure that people who I liked got better service - and it was noticably better service. People I liked were those who were polite to me, bought me drinks or tipped. And if anyone asked why "that bloke got served before me" I would tell them that they were being looked after because of the tip/politeness/whatever. And I made loads of tips - £50-100 a week in a country pub (and I was only getting paid £175 a week), which is a lot for the UK.

So - I tip. I tip the barman at the start of the night - or offer a drink. I also make sure they know if they are doing a good job. If its busy I sympathise, but tell them how well they are handling it, I make eye contact and smile and say thanks and stuff. Works pretty well as a rule.

[Roxsie]

I tend to add 10% to my bill and the round it to the nearest pound so if the bill was say £22 then i'd tip two pounds. However i only do that if i go to a restaurant or the hairdressers and only if the service was good.

That said if i ever take my brother out for a meal i always tip, thats because he's a right fussy bugger. Took him to Zizzi's as a pre-birthday treat cos i'd be back in Aber by his birthday. He had pizza, fair enough you say, pizza with no tomato, herbs or anything remotely fancy. It was basically cheese on toast. And unlike a lot of restaurants they brought it out perfect first time so i think they deserved their 20% tip. Unlike the time when he asked for plain spaghetti and they brought it out covered in olive oil and herbs and had to take it back and wash it by which time he'd filled up on bread.

However we tend to tip abroad because we don't tend to go out much in this country.

[Mittwoch]

I live in a country pub and waitress occasionally when staff are needed. I hate waitressing, but when the other waiters decide they don't want to turn up or cancelled their shift and didn't get anyone to cover (which annoys me; it is their job, they are getting paid for it and we arrange our social lives and simple activities like getting a chinese around what staff are on each night) there is nobody else to do the job so often I do.

I don't expect tips but it's amazing the amount I get as generally, even if I don't want to be there, I make an effort to get orders right and be friendly, helpful and chatty when I serve the food and ask if there's anything else they would like etc. It's not difficult to do in such a casual atmosphere - which is why it boggles me that other waiting staff cannot do the same. When I eat at a restaurant I appreciate it can be hectic - I've served a restaurant of 50 people along with a full bar area with just one other waiter, and it is hellish - but if I can keep a friendly demeanor, why can't they?

Basically what I am saying is that I believe waiters are paid not only to serve your food, but to make you comfortable. It creates a horrible atmosphere when you say thank you to a waiter but they don't even register it, or they serve your food like they would rather be doing anything else in the world. I'm not asking for excessive zeal, just the right attitude. I don't eat out much but when I do I tend to tip as it is custom - though I refuse to do it if I have not been made to feel comfortable, and I will tip more if it's clear that despite not wanting to, the waiter is making an effort to treat me as a human being rather than a table number.

[Scribe]

(This post pretains to tipping in the U.S.)

Well, this seems to be the debate for me, considering I work in a restaurant.

I work at a restaurant called the Lonestar Steakhouse and Saloon, as well as a few of my friends. Now, I'm a host, so tipping isn't that big of a deal for me. I make $4.75 an hour plus tipshare, which is 2% of the store's sales that night divided amongst the amount of hosts that worked. So, say the store made $1000.00 (a very low number, but it's just an example) and there were five hosts on that night. I would walk away with $4.00 at the end of the night, plus however much money I made in hours working. So really, my pay is more dependant on how much the store sells, rather than how much people give me.

Now, both my girlfriend and my best friend also have jobs there as servers. They make $2.43 an hour (yes) plus their tip. Obviously, unless people tip, they don't make much. It's very easy to sit back and say "Well, they gave me shitty service so why should I leave a tip at all?" Or, "They're just doing their jobs, so why should I tip?"

The answer to both of those questions is their wage. The reason they make $2.43 an hour is because it is assumed that the tips they get from their customers are going to fill out the rest of their money up to or above minimum wage. Even if their service is not so good, there's a lot that people don't think about when they're sitting down waiting for their food. Especially during the peak hours of business, a server can have anywhere from three to six tables they have to tend to. At my place, a normal table can range anywhere from one to six people (any highher and it's a "party"). That's a maximum of thirty six people they have to tend to, all with different wants and requests. They have to make and fill drink orders, put in appetizer orders, make salads, get and wait on food orders, make sure everything is okay at every table they have, try to bounce back and forth from the kitchen to the table, etc. That's more than enough to drive a server insane. Also, the time it takes your food to get out to the table IS NOT dependent on the server in the least. It all depends on how fast the cooks in the kitchen are going. If there's a lot of open menus on the floor, then the kitchen is going to take a bit longer to get food out, but customers don't see it like that. The server is the only interaction they get from the table to the rest of the restaurant, making it easy to "shoot the messenger" as it were.

As you can see, there's a lot that happens that can cause service to be less than expected, but nobody really sees it that way unless they've worked in a restaurant before. Slow service, or a mistake on an order, doesn't necessarily mean you have a shitty server. It just means people are human, and there's a lot of stress at a job where you're being flung back and forth between manager and customer every two minutes or less.

So, knowing all that, it really irks me when people don't tip their servers. No, you don't have to. It's not required (though, if you make a reservation, we do require a minimum of 15% gratuity, maybe more if you have a large party), but you should still do it. Tipping is how server's make their money. It's how they pay their bills, put food in their mouths, put gas in their cars, and basically live from day to day. Honestly, stiffing a server is probably the largest slap in the face you can give them, and that's why I dont tip any less than 20%, even if service was "bad." 15% tip is seen as the polite minumum to tip, so if your server really goes "above and beyond" your expectations, you had damn well better tip them a fair bit more than that IMO.

Next time you go out to eat, when you sit down and your server greets you, follow him/her around with your eyes. See were he/she moves, what he/she is doing, and how many other tables he/she has. Look at how many open menus there are on the floor. Look to see if your server has any older people or a lot of kids at a table. You'd be surprised at how much your server is really doing when you pay attention to your surroundings.

[gembird]

Yeah, but that's in the US and most of us live in the UK. I know that what you've said is absolutely relevant- I come from an area with several AMerican air bases and what you're talking about happens there too. However, in Britain people have to be paid a minimum wage (possibly excluding really young people? not sure) and the tip is something extra, a nice bonus. I do think that a lot of waiting staff and so on deserve it, but I feel that I don't have to tip another eight quid on top of a forty-quid meal for two because they're doing the job they're there to do. I do tip, but I also think about the service I'm getting and how much the staff are likely to be paid without tips.

[basstard]

Restaurants here have a mandatory 15% tip, which (I presume) is divided between waiters and kitchen staff, and no doubt to the bosses too.

Amusingly, sometimes in dodgy places the "15% tip on the bill" is translated as "tip not included", which makes me run to another restaurant.

Anyway, I'm happy to pay the 15% 'included' tip without complaint, as I get free bread and jugs of water usually without even requesting them, and the food here is almost uniformly great. However, it does mean that unless service was exemplary I won't leave a 'loose change' tip.

Another interesting titbit : before the Euro, Parisians customarily left a 10 franc tip (£1). Now people leave a €1 tip (67p), and the waiters got annoyed at that...

[Scribe]

Yeah, but that's in the US and most of us live in the UK.

Ah, well if that were the case here I wouldn't very well be spouting off :p If servers here were making minimum wage, then I would agree wholeheartedly about tipping being optional depending on the service provided. Buuuut, my points were for restaurants in the U.S. Perhaps I should make mention of that up at the top somewhere...