Absinthe

[Socks]

Yes, Absinthe, the green fairy, the green goddess, la fée verte, whatever you wish to call it. For those of you who don't know, It's a narcotic liquor made from wormwood, and it is not legalised in many countries, except for some places in the EU, like the Czech Republic and Denmark.

Well, It is claimed to be the most dangerous liquor out of all alcoholic beverages. Why? Because IF someone drank it excessively, they would have seizures due to the wormwood consistency of the absinthe.

Now, we have other liquors that are legalised....Brandy, for example, and if consumed to an excessive rate, then you would probably wake up the next morning covered in your own puke, with a major headache and an excruciating thirst (i.e. hangover).

Ah...But there's cigarettes as well, Cancer, you know the like.

So what's so dangerous about absinthe? Why can't we have these tasty green drinks in our bars?

Personally, anything could be dangerous to excess. That's why there's a thing called moderation.

So, my fellow forumites, You are welcome to express your opinion and give me any sort of clarification, if necessary. Have fun.

[Midget]

i think it's legal in the uk but bars are only allowed to serve one shot per person per night

i'm not 100% though

[Sorcha]

As far as being seen as "worse", it probably has something to do with the "hallucinations" it apparently causes but the Wiki cLiCkY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absinthe) disagrees with that and says it's no worse than many other liquors and spirits.

We have absinthe in Australia, but that has to do with our alcohol regulations and the permitted amounts of certain substances in drinks and so forth.

Basically we're booze heads.

Which is why I failed to make a point, other than that you should move here because we rock.

[InstaCpu]

Well I'm currently exiled (as an ex-pat) in one of the traditional producing countries (Switzerland where it is said to have originated) where it has recently been legalised again, albeit that production continued illegally. Tests I've read on it indicate that the amount of thujone (the substance blamed for the bad effects) is actually very small. Here is the wiki article, extensively footnoted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absinthe

I watched a TV report on the local news and the most popular brands were tested and found to contain in fact very little of this drug. The wiki mentions even the traditional methods would cause less of the drug to be obtained from wormwood than thought. "Hobbyist" homemade brands probably contain more...one French company had to add extract to up the thujone levels.

I've been told it tastes like pastis and I'm not a big fan of it so meh.

[Urlosenged]

Which is why I failed to make a point, other than that you should move here because we rock.

If only I could. I miss Australia and its completely laid back attitude to everything. :(

I think the problem with having it legal just because it's only dangerous if it's drank excessively is that there are, sadly, some people who simply wouldn't moderate themselves, and would drink it excessively. As soon as somebody (stupidly) died from it, people would be all over the governments demanding to know why this apparently super-dangerous drink was ever legalised. I guess. I've never had it myself, never felt inclined to try it. I'll just stick to my slow liver damage from the whisky methinks.

[katt]

Personally, anything could be dangerous to excess. That's why there's a thing called moderation.

.

realistically, how many people moderate?

I think alcohol causes enough problems without legalizing an even dodgier form of it

[bionic sheep]

If I remember correctly (I might be wrong) it's legal in Britain simply because it never caught on in the same way it did in the other European countries. Also, I believe that we have a different kind of absinthe over here, essentially making it just a very strong spirit rather than a hallucinogen - something to do with the brewing process being different for British absinthe.

I may be talking out of my arse.

[Roachy]

If I remember correctly (I might be wrong) it's legal in Britain simply because it never caught on in the same way it did in the other European countries. Also, I believe that we have a different kind of absinthe over here, essentially making it just a very strong spirit rather than a hallucinogen - something to do with the brewing process being different for British absinthe.

I may be talking out of my arse.

There are a few different types, so it is possible we had a less powerful version.

[Sloth]

Legalize the shittin' thing so MAYBE someone could finally write a decent book for a fuckin' change!

[Felix Barry]

It's not completely illegal in any country.... For the exact argument shown in the first post.... Instead, there are countries (like the uk and Ireland) where the drink is heavily taxed.... So much so that a lot of offlicenses don't see the point in having it available in their premises.... There are off licenses near where I live and they have absinthe available, but for them to get it in it costs them €60 a bottle, with the added VAT and such like it ends up being €80 for just 500ml of absinth....

Now, here's the thing.... People for some reason think it's illegal to bring it back into the uk and the republic.... But I've gone to spain, france and indeed the czech republic and brought back various kinds of absinthe on the cheap, and I've brought it home in my hand luggage....

Sure, there's a lot of stigma over it.... But noone actually gets arrested for having it, drinking it, and getting a hangover from it.... I've got absinthe right now in my house, I've been drinking absinthe for the past 3 years.... I've never had any trouble bringing it into the country.... It's the equivilent of bringing a whole load of ciggies home from some place foreign....

[Gabber-Baby]

I actually remember going to the shops with my older brother when i was about 11, and he bought a small bottle of absinthe from behind the counter. I remember he had to heat it up over sugar...maybe it wasnt absinthe, im not sure, im never tried the stuff to be honest and im not quite sure if i want to either.

Absinthe is usually 68-80% alcohol isnt it? I think maybe making it illegal is a little extreme although i really wouldnt like to think what would happen to a lil 15 year old kid if he got hold of some, it would be all over the news probably and there would be up-roar over it. Maybe it should be illegal, but perhaps i should try it first before giving my opinion though.....

:twisted:

[Darkscull]

there are some mainstream absinthe-alikes that are perfectly legal and cheap... but they're essentially green alcohol with aniseed flavouring.

there are still a few 'proper' absinthe brands about, brewed in something approaching a traditional way, but as someone has said, they closely monitor and control the amount of thujone in them (which is the main active ingredient in wormwood, and the one that can be dangerous) so that it could easily not be there.

the various laws against absinthe in places are leftovers from when they had a real problem and had to stop it.
as has also been said, britain never made it illegal because it wasn't a big problem here.

so absinthe isn't really any more dangerous than other spirits.. you'd die of alcohol poisoning long before any more exotic problems occurred.
even with illegally distilled absinthe made by hippies or something, the danger is the same as all homemade alcohol.

the only reason absinthe is treated any different from other spirits is its past.

edit: la fée absinthe is 45%, most you will find in normal circles will be less, i'm not sure if there are any higher than that

[Thomp]

If I remember correctly (I might be wrong) it's legal in Britain simply because it never caught on in the same way it did in the other European countries. Also, I believe that we have a different kind of absinthe over here, essentially making it just a very strong spirit rather than a hallucinogen - something to do with the brewing process being different for British absinthe.

I may be talking out of my arse.

I think you've pretty much nailed it, BS. It is more of a strong spirit, in the UK, than a hallucinogen.

I can't drink Absinthe anymore. It tasted awful when I had it, and it pushed me over the edge and made me throw up (bear in mind I'd had about 8 pints of lager, a treble vodka and coke, AND a speedball before it).

[Schmerglefwah]

I'm pretty sure absinthe is what made VanGoh chop off his ear.

[Roachy]

I'm pretty sure absinthe is what made VanGoh chop off his ear.

That was a constant ringing sound or something. Absinthe is a drink.

He only cut part off anyway.

[Nocashvalue]

Absinthe in it's current form is by and large a strong spirit. Producers have replaced the wormwood with herbs, making it fairly similar to a pastis (albeit perhaps fresher, with a more subtle aniseedy flavour). The problems with it were that the wormwood basically drove people insane, it was a pretty powerful hallucinogen. Now that the wormwood's gone, it's basically just the reputation and past of the absinthe that make it seem hardcore, rather than anything actually dodgy about it :/

[Hydralisk]

edit: la fée absinthe is 45%, most you will find in normal circles will be less, i'm not sure if there are any higher than that
Are you sure about that? Absinthe I've seen starts at about 65%. Maybe I just haven't been looking hard enough.

I find it beautifully ironic that Stroh 80 is perfectly legal in the UK (As far as I know), yet Absinthe isn't because somebody had a hallucination. As someone earlier pointed out, you would die from the alcohol poisoning before you got any hallucinogenic affect from British absinthes. I think that in the coming years, new drinking regulations aimed at curbing our national alcoholism will probably further regulate, if not entirely ban, such drinks as absinthe and Stroh.

One thing that really grinds my gear is people who say the Absinthe is their favourite drink - it's not big and clever, and frankly I'd be surprised if you could handle more than a few shots of the stuff anyway.

[Darkscull]

ah, after looking more in depth, la fée absinthe starts from 45%, most of their range is 68-70%

wiki says that absinthe is usually 68-80%

There are several brands of absinthe that you see in bars (ones called 'absinthion' or something), and they're usually around 40% or so, and what most people feel all big about drinking

[Splush]

All this confusion and semi-outlaw status must be better than any marketing campaign you could buy. If it didn't have that image it would just be another weird old-fashioned european spirit that nobody really drinks, but all that dangerous glamour has people lining up to buy £5 shots of it.

I don't like it either way, I like strong spirits but that aniseed flavour is nasty.

As for the actual question, it should be fully legal and people should stop getting excited about it.

[Meyvn]

I've done a lot of research on the subject, and there's a lot of bogus mystique surrounding absinthe. True absinthe is legal in the EU, including Britain and even France, where it was once banned because of research regarding wormwood OIL (not wormwood itself, and not absinthe) where doctors injected pure wormwood oil into small animals, and it killed them. Pure wormwood oil is poisonous in significant amounts. The wormwood content in absinthe is not nearly enough to induce any kind of dangerous effects. Additionally, thujone, another part of many traditional absinthe recipes, has been blamed for the alleged effects of early 1900s absinthe. Given the extremely low thujone content in absinthe, experts generally acknowledge that it's impossible for it to be harmful either.

Most of absinthe's mystique comes from folklore, and people telling each other it isn't legal here or there, or 'real' absinthe is only available in the Czech Republic. The truth is, most likely any real problems (there's been no proof that any actually happened; most of it was probably just wormwood hysteria) that stemmed from it in the early 1900s (when it was first banned in a lot of places, including France and the United States) resulted from poor manufacturing and various unintentional chemicals that ended up in the stuff. Any claims of strange highs on absinthe now are resultant either from placebo or the addition of other drugs into absinthe (opium is supposedly a popular one).

As far as its legal status, it's been banned most significantly in France and the US. And in the US, it's legal to own and consume absinthe, it just isn't legal to produce or to sell it. Apparently there are "US import versions" that omit wormwood and sell in liquor stores anyway, but that's just for silly people. It was never banned in the UK, and can be purchased there in bars wormwood, thujone and all. I've personally done this and inspected the bottle to make sure. It was never banned in Australia as far as I know. I heard a rumor recently that it's now legal in the US again, but as I've found no sources to corroborate it, I don't really believe it. However, in the US you can order real absinthe from either Canada or the UK, and generally it makes it through customs anyway.

As to absinthe's real effects on people? I can only speak for myself. I personally experienced a slight (and I mean slight)ly different buzz than with other alcoholic drinks. It seemed to give me more thinking clarity than others, something I enjoyed since I don't drink just to get wasted. Honestly, though, I'd say the difference between absinthe and other alcoholic buzzes is no more different than comparing cider, beer, whisk(e)y, vodka, et cetera.

[Smartie]

I think it's probably one of those drinks now that has a reputation which it cannot uphold. The ingredients of the drink have been mutated and are now no longer (in the UK) considered dangerous.
However people think it's cool or trendy to buy it because it has a higher alcohol content. Which really is just quite retarded, as they'll be drunk after an hour or so and will pass out in a gutter (probably after trying to start a fight).

[Smokey]

Legalize the shittin' thing so MAYBE someone could finally write a decent book for a fuckin' change!

Shakespere, Dickens, Brontë sisters, Lewis Carroll, Robert Louis Stevenson. Pretty sure they weren't all off their faces on absinthe.

Also, van Gogh may have been drinking it but he was nuts enough to cut off his ear without any intoxicants.

As far as i'm aware absinthe is a fairly strong spirit which traditionally had some halleucinogenic component. More commercially available varieties will not have this active component since these are normally frowned upon.

My view is it's aniseed flavoured so I'm not touching it. Even if it wasn't I wouldn't be interested enough to spend a fortune on a bottle when I can get a litre of vodka for under £10.

[Archaeology hat]

The absinthe I've seen and often consumed has been about 60-83%.

I have to say, Absinthe is one of the nicer ways to get drunk, as long as you don't quaf it down like you have some kind of wasting illness requiring constant alcohol its not at all that bad.

That said, I am the type of person who ends up being semi-silent and slightly depressed when drunk rather than angry or stupid.

[Sloth]

Shakespere, Dickens, Brontë sisters, Lewis Carroll, Robert Louis Stevenson. Pretty sure they weren't all off their faces on absinthe.

Also, van Gogh may have been drinking it but he was nuts enough to cut off his ear without any intoxicants.

As far as i'm aware absinthe is a fairly strong spirit which traditionally had some halleucinogenic component. More commercially available varieties will not have this active component since these are normally frowned upon.

My view is it's aniseed flavoured so I'm not touching it. Even if it wasn't I wouldn't be interested enough to spend a fortune on a bottle when I can get a litre of vodka for under £10.

Although I was being somewhat facetious... wilde & hemmingway... also, interesting that you didn't mention anybody who could have written a book in the past ten years...

btw vodka is the Miller Lite of distilled liquors.

[pieeater]

I'm pretty sure absinthe is what made VanGoh chop off his ear.

That is true I believe, I have a bottle of french absinthe here with a picture of Van Goh on the box.

As for the strength of the stuff ive had anything from 55% to 85% and I have seen 89.9% in a bar in Liverpool. I think they must not be able to sell anything that is 90%

[Soma]

As far as being seen as "worse", it probably has something to do with the "hallucinations" it apparently causes but the Wiki cLiCkY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absinthe) disagrees with that and says it's no worse than many other liquors and spirits.

We have absinthe in Australia, but that has to do with our alcohol regulations and the permitted amounts of certain substances in drinks and so forth.

Basically we're booze heads.

Which is why I failed to make a point, other than that you should move here because we rock.
As far as I know he absinthe we have here in Australia doesn't contain as much wormwood in it as it does in other countries... or so I've heard. I have one friend who said she's hallucinated off it before... but yeh... I don't really believe her... but just something to throw around....

As far as legalisation is concerned I really couldn't care, I don't know of many people who drink it, and I suspect that unless you like a strong aniseed flavour you're not going to like it. I've had it a few times but it's hard to get it in a way that's drinkable, I tried the sugar with some water or whatever it was you're supposed to do but nah... Easiest thing was to skull some with a chaser straight after.

[Smokey]

Although I was being somewhat facetious... wilde & hemmingway... also, interesting that you didn't mention anybody who could have written a book in the past ten years...

btw vodka is the Miller Lite of distilled liquors.

There's reason for that, mentioning a modern author for example Mark Haddon author of Curious Incident... or JK Rowling would most likely have had a reply of "those guys suck".

Also, I'm not really a spirit man. I only have them (usually vodka) ocassionally. I've had much less bad experiences when I layed of the spirits. In fact I see them as the reason people get so pissed they end up having their stomachs pumped. Much harder to do that to yourself with larger or beer.

[Aladdin Sane]

The absinthe you get in the UK (or at least the stuff in bars) is generally weaker than traditional absinthe (around 40-50%) and doesn't contain wormwood.

Wormwood IS legal in the UK. You can even buy it as a raw ingredient for whatever purpose you wish. And I think it might even be legal to make wormwood containing Absinthe in the UK, although since there is a precedent for not doing so it doesn't seem to be very common, if indeed it happens at all.

It is possible, however, to import Absinthe from abroad (such as France) which contains wormwood. I have had this, and it is of a stronger percentage (68% was the stuff I had) and generally tastes a LOT nicer than the stuff available in the UK. It is not a drink to be knocked back as quickly as possible and when it is prepared properly (with water drizzled over a sugar cube into the absinthe) it makes a very pleasing and very refreshing drink. The wormwood itself doesn't add a great deal to it and it certainly won't make you hallucinate (the most I ever found it doing was making me extremely relaxed - an experience comparable in a way to the effects of certain other "herbs").

The active ingredient in wormwood (Thujone) can, in large enough quantities, be poisonous. However, these days regulations are in place to limit the amount of Thujone a drink can contain so there is very little, if indeed any, risk.

A lot of the rumours surrounding Absinthe stem from the 19th Century, where it was banned in France for fears of sending people insane. Having looked at Paris during this period I would say this was less to do with the drink itself, but rather the large quantities which people drank, combined with unregulated backstreet distilleries which were so common of the time.

These days Absinthe has no risk, so there really is no call to regulate it. I wish people would be educated however, that Absinthe should not be drunk in shots like I see so many people attempting to do. It is served with sugar and water and drunk very, very, slowly...

[Roxsie]

btw vodka is the Miller Lite of distilled liquors.

I'm sorry but have you actually tried real vodka such as Stolli, Standart or Zubrowka?

[Sloth]

There's reason for that, mentioning a modern author for example Mark Haddon author of Curious Incident... or JK Rowling would most likely have had a reply of "those guys suck".

Also, I'm not really a spirit man. I only have them (usually vodka) ocassionally. I've had much less bad experiences when I layed of the spirits. In fact I see them as the reason people get so pissed they end up having their stomachs pumped. Much harder to do that to yourself with larger or beer.

i prefer beer as well... a friend of mine made an awesome batch of Rye Pale Ale.

You got me Roxsie, no I have not tried those brands... so the next time i find myself at a liquor store i will pick a bottle to try. That said... i've had crap gin, crap rum, crap whiskey... all better than crap vodka...