Buying a Mac or PC: A Detailed View

[Scribbly]

Resolved!:

Being a student I've made my decision and am going to buy... drumroll .. a regular pc.

Yes. Although very tempting, the niceness of the iMac doesn't weigh up to the €600 difference.

I want to thank you all for helping with this issue, I really didn't know what to do :)

______________________

Summarized:
Buy a nice mac for €1600 or pc for €1000 that's just as fast?



Hello dear w&b forumnite!

This thread is NOT about arguing wether a Mac is awesome or not.
This thread is about COMPARING two options, in a convenience / money / performance / usability kind of way.

To help me, but also other potential buyers, make a choice :)




Obviously before we start talking about hardware, I really should tell you about me. No, not my favorite dish (I'm not gonna cook it but I'll order it from zanzibaarrr), but:

Hobbies include some gaming and photography. So it must be able to play some new games decently, and Lightroom / Photoshop / Indesign must work fast.


On to the hardware:
________________________________
FIRST OPTION: REGULAR PC
Price: € 1000

For that 1000 I could get a pc with sssslightly better performance than the iMac, with a 22" screen and all the dvdburner, memorycard reader, casing, etc etc

________________________________
SECOND OPTION: AN IMAC
Price: € 1600

Compared to the pc slightly less performance, ghz-wise.


________________________________
COMPARED

Reasons why I'd love a Mac:

- Golly they're pretty and nice :D

- Anything I'd still like to do in Windows, I could with Parallels

- No wires, no huge pc next to your desk, no crap, just one pretty device.


Reasons why I don't just go "Whoopey!" and buy one:

- For €600 less I could buy the same performance. 600 is a lot.

- You could always upgrade the regular PC

________________________________
So ... ? (help)

Yea! A cheaper pc or a nicer iMac. Both tempting, right now it could go either way.

This is where YOU can help me.

600 clams worth it?

PC should be upgradable?


________________________________
I'd really appreciate all comments, help, feedback :)

However please don't use this thread to argue about wether Mac is awesome or not, plenty of those around I think ;)

[Wigpat]

Personally I find PCs last longer. Macs seem to just give up once they are a few years old.

[Tiode]

I find the other way round to be honest, PCs require much more maintenance, do you -really- need all that extra speed for games..? Not really.

[Scribbly]

Personally I find PCs last longer. Macs seem to just give up once they are a few years old.

I find the other way round to be honest, PCs require much more maintenance, do you -really- need all that extra speed for games..? Not really.

Let's assume they work just as fine in the long run, for now :)

No I don't need to play current games, but software get's more demanding every year. A PC could prove to be a better investment because

- It's better, will last longer with its hardware?
- If needed, you can tweak it?

[Tiggs]

PC. It is significantly faster (noticeable faster in things like Photoshop and Lightroom, and would blow the mac out of the water as far as games go) and is cheaper. I think that more than makes up for the increase in clutter. Also the saved money would let you get a 24" monitor, which would be far better than the 20" one in the iMac.

Also, on the subject of screens, its worth noting that the iMac's use cheap TN-film based panels which give poor viewing angles and worse colours than PVA or IPS based screens. If you're using it for the graphics work like you said, a good monitor really would help.

And as a slight aside, I wouldn't go for a 10,000rpm drive. I used to have a pair on raid1, and honestly it didn't make all that much difference. Something like the Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 drives give you pretty much the same performance, but with a lot more capacity for your price.

[The Grim Reaper]

From a pure gaming point of view, the 2600 XT is down there on benchmarks with the 7600GT. And thats the XT version, which im sure is better than the pro. The dual 8800GT's blows it out of the water.

The mac option looks nice though, but it just doesn't fit the gaming purpose half as well as the PC does. Am i allowed to say 'hackintosh'?

As for how long it lasts, also in terms of gaming, the 8800GT appears to be the sweet spot currently, and should last you very well. TWO of them, well then you've got almost the best setup possible currently. The 2600, well, its already becoming dated if you want to play games like Bioshock or Crysis on higher details. It just doesnt compare in any way to dual 8800GTs. Even though you said that as an example, its what i'd choose.

I wouldn't go a 10,000 rpm drive however. Apparently they fail a lot faster than standard 7200 drives. If you want speed in the hard drive department, get two big drives in RAID 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID_1). From my understanding this provides some redundancy as well?

And dont by an extra network cards, most good motherboards come with onboard gigabit, sometimes even two ports. Though by card i suppose you meant this.

edit: i just tried to build a Mac with equal or similar specs to your PC build there. I had to use a Mac Pro since the imac's didnt go high enough. It comes around between 2600 - 3000 pounds. It's not an exact copy obviously, but it gives a pretty good indication, providing i did it right.

[Scribbly]

Monitor: Absolutely right, I could buy a nicer screen with the 'leftover' money. But doesn't take away the fact that with the iMac everything is inside it ;)

10.000rpm drive: shouldn't have mentioned this one, was just an example, actually the Best Buy guide had two drives on RAID :D

Gaming: Yes, I play some games, but I don't reaaaally care about them. I'm more interested in the fact that a PC might last me way longer in the long run.

thanks for the feedback :) I'll also edit my first post some

[Lewiji]

I use both a Mac and a PC, granted the Mac is a laptop.

I absolutely adore my Mac and would reccommend it to anyone, but in your case I think you need the flexibility of a PC. I use my Mac for WoW and that's it in terms of games (except for some old Dos games + pokemon ;)), otherwise it's used for work and web browsing. And watching DVDs in bed, but that doesn't apply to an iMac :p

Bootcamp seems a bit silly to me and I don't know why you'd want to keep switching back and forth between OS X and XP/Vista when you could probably just settle on one operating system rationally.

So by all means get a Mac, they're amazing, but for your purposes I don't think you'd be entirely satisfied.

[Midget]

i had a mac before this windows laptop and whilst i loved it to bits, i wouldn't recommend it unless you really can afford to splash the cash

and all the stuff about "macs are better for graphic design blah" is bullshit, photoshop will run just as quickly on a windows based machine and most decent design software available for mac will have a windows counterpart

[Scribbly]

Bootcamp: Bugger, I've been talking about Bootcamp the whole time while I ment Parallels! Also I wouldn't need it every day. Just for the occasional game, or windows-program-without-Mac OSx-equivalent?

DVD's: I watch those on the couch ;)

Macs aren't better for graphic design: I agree on that one.


Also, last night I figured that two big reasons why I'm considering a Mac are that
- the OS would be something new, pretty, nice and exciting
- the one-screen-no-other-crap idea really appeals to me

[piemastermike]

you know, you could just get a PC and dual boot some hackintosh (http://lifehacker.com/software/hack-attack/build-a-hackintosh-mac-for-under-800-321913.php) goodness

[Scribbly]

you know, you could just get a PC and dual boot some hackintosh (http://lifehacker.com/software/hack-attack/build-a-hackintosh-mac-for-under-800-321913.php) goodness

True, but if I'm going Mac style I want to go all the shiny, pretty, everything-in-on-screen way :)

[doctor_fruitbat]

Gods bless you piemastermike. I've been looking for a way to get Mac OSX and give a big fuck you to Apple at the same time, and now I can. Besides partitioning off the hard drive (which I can already do), would I need any other software to dualboot with XP?

[piemastermike]

apparently you need to have access to a mac with tiger installed already so you can patch the disk image to boot on an intel/amd machine.

[doctor_fruitbat]

Thanks; but what I meant was, would I need any other software like Linux's GRUB, or would I simply be presented with a choice of OS's on startup once they are both installed?

[piemastermike]

wouldn't be able to tell you that, you can probably find out from some of the links on that page

[Wahoo]

True, but if I'm going Mac style I want to go all the shiny, pretty, everything-in-on-screen way :)

Well, you can either have the OS looking pretty, or a computer that performs better for your money. Which would you prefer? :P

[The Grim Reaper]

True, but if I'm going Mac style I want to go all the shiny, pretty, everything-in-on-screen way :)

You could do it the other way around, run a hackintosh setup within a virtual pc.

btw i mentioned hackintosh in one of my earlier posts, though it was probably buried beneath the tl;dr

[piemastermike]

You could do it the other way around, run a hackintosh setup within a virtual pc.

btw i mentioned hackintosh in one of my earlier posts, though it was probably buried beneath the tl;dr

any idea if it's possible to patch without osx?

[Scribbly]

I've updated my first post, which changes the situation.

My question now: buy a nice iMac for 1600 or a PC - that's just as fast - for € 600 less?


Well, you can either have the OS looking pretty, or a computer that performs better for your money. Which would you prefer? :P


My problem ^^ I'm close to deciding. Right now I'm thinking it might be an iMac.

[doctor_fruitbat]

So you could spend too much money on an overpriced fashion accessory with less options for upgrading or repairs, or you could spend a reasonable sum (even after buying a webcam and whatnot) on a far better machine, patch Leopard to run the same OS but faster (plus Windows installation on the side), and be able to fix and upgrade it far more easily.

Seriously, now that I know how to run OSX on a PC, I can't think of a single reason for buying an iMac beyond wanting a compact machine and being a fashion victim. Literally no other reason whatsoever.

[The Grim Reaper]

I havent looked into doing this myself because i have no need for OSX, but OSx86 seems to be the right place to look:
http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

[Lewiji]

So you could spend too much money on an overpriced fashion accessory with less options for upgrading or repairs, or you could spend a reasonable sum (even after buying a webcam and whatnot) on a far better machine, patch Leopard to run the same OS but faster (plus Windows installation on the side), and be able to fix and upgrade it far more easily.

Seriously, now that I know how to run OSX on a PC, I can't think of a single reason for buying an iMac beyond wanting a compact machine and being a fashion victim. Literally no other reason whatsoever.
OSX on a PC doesn't run at native speed. Windows on a Mac does, however.

[The Grim Reaper]

OSX on a PC doesn't run at native speed.

It runs faster? :p

[Sloth]

for a desktop... just buy a cheap PC... if yer rich and you don't like cords get a imac, but really.... don't you think you be happier witha powerbook over an imac? a cheap pc can do just about whatever you want except play fancy pants dx10 games.

i have a macbook that is just great... cheap pc labtops scare me because they seem to break too easy... or atleast my boss goes through one a year.... actually those were not cheap labtops...

bootcamp is nice because i can now load corel (required for work...ugh) on my labtop!
Oh yeah... and stupid netflix's watch it now thing isn't osx compatible....

[The Grim Reaper]

cheap pc labtops scare me because they seem to break too easy... or atleast my boss goes through one a year.... actually those were not cheap labtops...

Not really, as long as you don't by the cheapest of the cheap.

And i think your boss doesn't go through one a year because they break, its probably because (s)he's your boss and wants a new one every year, paid for by the company of course.

Also i think im replying to this thread too much.

[Scribbly]

Resolved!:

I've made my decision and am going to buy... drumroll .. a regular pc.

Yes. Although very tempting, the niceness of the iMac doesn't weigh up to the €600 difference.

I want to thank you all for helping with this issue, I really didn't know what to do :)

[French Bread]

A bit pointless now but.... eur 1049 for a macbook with shiny new leopard, some nice media software (i know its no final cut and photoshop but... you also get a free nano because you are a student

[doctor_fruitbat]

Woo hoo, I got the patched OSX. Tomorrow I'll see if my dying laptop will install it and give it a go.

[Sloth]

Not really, as long as you don't by the cheapest of the cheap.

And i think your boss doesn't go through one a year because they break, its probably because (s)he's your boss and wants a new one every year, paid for by the company of course.

Also i think im replying to this thread too much.

no he really does break them...

... and he owns part of the company...

[the architect]

i am interested in fruitbat's progress. not because i want to run OSX on a windows computer (really, i cannot think of any reason anyone would want to do that... my ubuntu installation is far prettier than any mac i've ever seen) i dual-boot windows and ubuntu, only using windows when i have to... I just am curious because i like seeing things hacked and large companies getting screwed :)

[doctor_fruitbat]

Piemastermike is having a go at running OSX on PC as well; the main problem is that there are numerous patches and methods of achieving OSexiness, and not all great. One set of instructions I followed resulted in my laptop looking for Windows on the wrong partition/drive path, and not even the mighty force of the Recovery Console could fix it. In a nutshell, I had to do a clean reinstall of XP because literally nothing would fix it, even after fixing two completely separate yet related faults. Even when done properly, it isn't perfect; piemastermike had to leave the installer hanging for twenty minutes just to reach the proper full-graphics installer program; I thought it was frozen entirely and opened my DVD drive with a safety pin, causing the laser to run in the bare open air. Not good, not good.

Suffice to say, making a hackintosh is not a walk in the park, though those who got it working properly have reported it as being a fantastic alternative to paying the prices Apple charge. My problems may also be related to running an archaic, non-dual core AMD processor, though there are workarounds.

And as someone who can hold his own when it comes to fiddling about with computers and has some sort of knowledge of coding 2D games, Linux is a horrible, unfinished mess that can't compare to OSX whatsoever. Feel free to disagree, but 5 hours of installing fuck all for ridiculous reasons such as not being given admin priveledges because apparently I'm three years old and can't be allowed to risk fucking up my own damn OS put the convenience of Windows into sharp perspective. Double-click, install, reboot, run - lovely.

Ye gods I hate Linux.

[piemastermike]

I'm trying to do this one a new hard drive so as not to fuck over my bootloader and/or files. However its having problems writing to that drive but it might be something to do with being formatted in vista because I know it has some kind of weird protection. I'm going to try a different drive a bit later today.

[the architect]

Piemastermike is having a go at running OSX on PC as well; the main problem is that there are numerous patches and methods of achieving OSexiness, and not all great. One set of instructions I followed resulted in my laptop looking for Windows on the wrong partition/drive path, and not even the mighty force of the Recovery Console could fix it. In a nutshell, I had to do a clean reinstall of XP because literally nothing would fix it, even after fixing two completely separate yet related faults. Even when done properly, it isn't perfect; piemastermike had to leave the installer hanging for twenty minutes just to reach the proper full-graphics installer program; I thought it was frozen entirely and opened my DVD drive with a safety pin, causing the laser to run in the bare open air. Not good, not good.

Suffice to say, making a hackintosh is not a walk in the park, though those who got it working properly have reported it as being a fantastic alternative to paying the prices Apple charge. My problems may also be related to running an archaic, non-dual core AMD processor, though there are workarounds.

And as someone who can hold his own when it comes to fiddling about with computers and has some sort of knowledge of coding 2D games, Linux is a horrible, unfinished mess that can't compare to OSX whatsoever. Feel free to disagree, but 5 hours of installing fuck all for ridiculous reasons such as not being given admin priveledges because apparently I'm three years old and can't be allowed to risk fucking up my own damn OS put the convenience of Windows into sharp perspective. Double-click, install, reboot, run - lovely.

Ye gods I hate Linux.

i take it you never used or possibly never understood ubuntu. the sudo command is all you ever need to get admin privileges. my guess is that you simply didn't take the time to learn the OS, but I could be wrong, but i don't really care either. it works for me, i adore it, and compiz makes any "mess" that linux may have (which, i might add, i've never encountered) well worth it. furthermore, i read on another thread that you spent less than a day with it and never really bothered to get real help with your problems. the ubuntu forums are great, and there are several IRC chat helps. really, any problem you have can be solved easily. i think some people just aren't made for linux

[doctor_fruitbat]

Sorry, I was really drunk when i wrote that. :p

Nonetheless, I spent hours and hours over the course of a few days on what should have been simple chores, like installing graphics drivers, and there were problems every step of the way. When you have an alternative set up with none of those problems, it's easy to feel that it's all a bit redundant and lose patience. Maybe I'll give it another go after christmas, when I have a lot more HDD space and can afford to tinker with it for an extended period of time.

[goggs2]

Mac's are good now, but in my primary school we had these:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Macintosh_128k_transparency.png/250px-Macintosh_128k_transparency.png

Pure evil!!!

[The Grim Reaper]

Bump.

I'm now looking at trying to make a hackintosh also. I have a Dual Core Opteron 165, so im not sure if it likes AMD cpus. SSE2 and 3 are supported. Anyone want to point me where to start? PM's are good for anything that might be controversial ;)

[katt]

Mac's are good now, but in my primary school we had these:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/Macintosh_128k_transparency.png/250px-Macintosh_128k_transparency.png

Pure evil!!!

I think it looks more confused and sweet than evil... :)

not that you meant that literally.


i'd not buy a mac cause i'd feel like i was paying extra for a marketing gimmick. im sure they have their strong points but the price difference is still pretty big

[piemastermike]

Bump.

I'm now looking at trying to make a hackintosh also. I have a Dual Core Opteron 165, so im not sure if it likes AMD cpus. SSE2 and 3 are supported. Anyone want to point me where to start? PM's are good for anything that might be controversial ;)

you have to get a patched AMD version rather than the patched intel version of the ISO.

[doctor_fruitbat]

Scroll down this page (http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page) and see if you have any hardware incompatibility first; I'm pretty sure that that's what killed my attempts at installing OSX, as my laptop wasn't exactly brimming with cutting edge technology when I got it. On the plus side, I'm finally buying a new PC in under a month, so I can give it another shot then.

[The Grim Reaper]

you have to get a patched AMD version rather than the patched intel version of the ISO.
Getting.

Graphics card and processor are supported. Motherboard isn't listed.

[doctor_fruitbat]

The resolution is wrong, the sound doesn't work, the internet isn't running, it has to boot from the DVD and it only recognises 128GB on my 500GB hard drive, but Leopard is running on my PC. I'm fairly sure that these are all fixable problems, too; all the built-in software works perfectly, and it's as smooth and fast as you'd expect. I'll try a fairly intensive program to see how it copes under a heavy workload, right after I've sorted the few remaining problems. I may post a brief guide, if anyone's interested in doing it themselves.

[Martinus]

I'm sure you've already asked for assistance doctor_fruitbat but just for the sake of curiosity can I ask you what distro you tried to install and on what hardware?

[doctor_fruitbat]

I downloaded the latest BrazilMac patched DVD. I had a lot of trouble at first, but once I found a decent install guide that didn't forget to tell you important information such as 'change X drive path or it won't know where to install everything', it was fine. I'll try to find the URL for it. Specs are:

Intel Quad Core Q6600
OCZ 4Gb RAM
nVidia 7300GS
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R (Socket 775)
Samsung DVD drive, not sure which
Samsung HDD, standard 500GB one

I've sorted the resolution, it was due to OSX not actually supporting 1680x1050. I downloaded some 3rd party software to solve it. Still haven't sorted the other problems, but that's mainly because I just got Vista and have been playing around with that instead. :) I know I can get the internet working because numerous people have reported making theirs work, booting from DVD simply requires me to install a bootloader, and the sound I think can be patched.

[Martinus]

Heheh I was referring to Linux (I was attempting to assess what caused the issues). ;)

[doctor_fruitbat]

Ah, right. Ubuntu, there's been at least one new version since the one I tried, which didn't support WPA as standard, which was a real pain in the neck.