Hiding vs Medpacks

[Pilk Man]

Anyone noticed how more and more games these days are using the "YOU ARE INJURED - HIDE AND LET HEALTH RECOVER" mechanic over the "YOU HAVE TAKEN DAMAGE, FIND A MED PACK OR THE MISSION IS REALLY HARD FROM NOW ON" tradition?

From Call of Duty, through Assassin's Creed and into The Darkness, I've noticed most games these days seem to offer the player a retreat/recover system where avoiding damage allows your health to recharge. It seems to me that this has come into prominent effect since the 360 arrived with its achievement system.

IMO, it's a much better (and much less frustrating) way of doing things in games. I've been trying to play through Perfect Dark Zero (traditional health system) and, frankly, I'm happy to give up. The amount of damage you take compared to the availability of armour is WAAAAYYYY off balance.

It annoys me because games like the three I mentioned above (with quick loading times to get you back in the action if you kick the bucket) inspire you to get back in the fight, try again and adapt your tactics to win over your enemies, whereas games like PD just have you screaming and pulling out your hair (I know I used to get like this a lot when I was younger).

Even Halo 2+3 with the frequent check points made it a lot easier to soldier through those tough spots! I find this system particularly effective when mixed with an enemy AI difficulty based on how well you play.

What are your thoughts on this type of gameplay? Which system do you prefer? Discuss!

[tom93]

I prefer the medpack system, so long as there's saving available always/often.
If you just heal by running away, then you can just plink away at the enemies and hide behind a rock. Medpacks force you to think and to manage your health and equipment.
I'm also a big fan of limited inventory, Deus Ex or Resident Evil style, where the more devastating weapons take up more space. You have to make sacrifices and decisions that you just don't get otherwise.

[skoo]

Regen is better because you can't snooker yourself by screwing up an easy bit then having to do a hard bit with 3 health... forcing you to restart the level/game

Regen is worse because you can make one kill at a time then retreat and wait.

What we need is a BISCUIT system which is a combination of both.

[piemastermike]

take a pack of digestives into the field with you?

[Lyricaus]

Regen is better because you can't snooker yourself by screwing up an easy bit then having to do a hard bit with 3 health... forcing you to restart the level/game

Regen is worse because you can make one kill at a time then retreat and wait.

What we need is a BISCUIT system which is a combination of both.

Such as you collect medkits, and they only are used when your health is low and you're hiding? No medkits collecting, no hide to heal? Have I solved the dilemma already?
But I prefer hide to heal, easier that way than the limited amount of medkits some games have. Though I like playing both options.

[skoo]

naaaah

You start with X number of biscuits (like the reception bar on a mobile phone) I'm gonna use 5 for my example here.

As you take damage, the bar depletes, and if it goes far enough you lose a biscuit. Lets say you lost half and now have 2.5 biscuits. You would regen to 3 but go no further until you get a medpack to "unlock" the 4th/5th biscuit(s).

[Erskien_Parkour]

I prefer medkits

when they are well paced obviously, take a look at a half life game. Pretty much perfect medkit placing.

( i keep writing medkip :( )

Maybe different difficulty levels could have differnet healing types.

Easy - Regen + Medkits
Medium - Regen
Hard - Medkits (few per map)

[Haroshi]

I'm not too bothered which games use to be honest,
but I feel that in single player games the recovery system is superior.

Although both are unrealistic, having a recovery system means that
you don't have to keep backtracking to find some health. Instead you
can keep progressing more fluidly.

Of course this depends on the type of game as well, especially in multiplayer;

For example Team Fortress 2 works well with a health pack system,
due to the fact that the hectic playing style lends itself to either
going on a suicide run or striking then retreating to the nearest health point.
And I suppose using the medic gives players the option to change their
play style completely, taking out multiple opponents and breaking stalemates.

On the other hand COD:4 seems to be best suited to the recovery system,
one of the reasons being that health packs would seem out of place in a
game which is aiming for a realistic look, and secondly being the fact that
cover is used a lot more, leading to sustained fire fights where stealth and
accuracy are valued.

[The Grim Reaper]

Depends what sort of game. I prefer regen in realistic damage single player games, it makes it less frustrating, and it encourages the use of cover to stop and rest.
For mainly online games which are deathmatch, i prefer healthpacks. UT with regen health would plain suck. Im sure similar games like quake would also. Medics work well too in this style, think TF2.

[piemastermike]

naaaah

You start with X number of biscuits (like the reception bar on a mobile phone) I'm gonna use 5 for my example here.

As you take damage, the bar depletes, and if it goes far enough you lose a biscuit. Lets say you lost half and now have 2.5 biscuits. You would regen to 3 but go no further until you get a medpack to "unlock" the 4th/5th biscuit(s).

it is like that on Medal of Honor Airborne. In fact it is identical!

[Lewiji]

I feel regen allows for a much more cinematic experience, like you're playing through a movie, which is a lot more entertaining than being frustrated with 3hp left.

[WraithMaster]

Red Faction 2 was actually one of the first to use a sense of this system. You had a health bar and 3 "medpacks". When you took damage the health would regen slowly. If you lost a whole heath bar, the medpack would heal you automatically. If you ran outta medpacks and the life bar ran out you died. You could pick up more medpacks to replace used ones.

So essentially an early but exact form of what Skoo suggested.

[Jay]

What? Perfect Dark Zero had a pretty good system for health...

Being shot took away a big bit of health and forced to to hit the dirt, but after a while you begin to heal slightly, although not completely. To my mind it was a "pain factor" bar, get shot too much in one go without rest and die...get shot a little then cover to get over the pain slighty and live longer.

I liked the Red Faction 2 approach it seemed more "real" (okay not really). Going by the latest duck and cover to heal fad your character should be a giant hole by the end of the game.

[doctor_fruitbat]

it is like that on Medal of Honor Airborne. In fact it is identical!
Resistance: Fall of Man does something similar too, with a three-tier health system.

[skoo]

I haven't played those games, but I also wasn't claiming to have invented the system either... I just think a mixture like that would be good.

I don't like total regen because you can come from the brink of death and wait 10 seconds and suddenly you're good as new. Meh. I also don't like medpacks because level design, item placement, etc can play a huge part in the difficulty level. If you cock something up and damage yourself then have to do some ninja moves to recover, that's just lame.

Tiered regen (I still want to call it biscuiting) is like a compromise, whereby you can mix caution with flailing for that "guns blazing - last stand - but not invincible" effect.

[doctor_fruitbat]

Biscuiting it is then. It's a fairly good system, and it's a shame it isn't used more.

[Youlikeyams?]

I haven't played those games, but I also wasn't claiming to have invented the system either... I just think a mixture like that would be good.

I don't like total regen because you can come from the brink of death and wait 10 seconds and suddenly you're good as new. Meh. I also don't like medpacks because level design, item placement, etc can play a huge part in the difficulty level. If you cock something up and damage yourself then have to do some ninja moves to recover, that's just lame.

That's why The Getaway wasn't very good. Not to mention the way your bloodstains magically vanished as if standing against a wall and resting not only patched up your wounds but deployed some kind of mobile Ariel tablet too.

With Fruitbat here - Resistance does that kind of system for the singleplayer mode where you have 4 quadrants of health and you can only heal any quadrants that aren't completely empty until you find a healthpack. It's a good balance so you don't rush through an entire section to be left with only a bit of health left. A full regen is used in multiplayer though, which seems fair as you'll often have no choice but to rush about. It all works well.

[Chris]

Whatever happened to the whole "Kill an enemy and nick their Healthpack" Concept?
I miss It. :(

[Splush]

I like health recharging in single player games, it helps the flow of the game if you don't have to hunt for health packs during (or between) fights. It fits in well with the increased emphasis on cover that recent games have had. Also the developer doesn't have to worry about item balance so much, so there's less chance of that Perfect Dark Zero situation you mentioned happening. Although there are some single player games where managing inventory is a big part of the game, and health packs suit those.

In hardcore deathmatch games like UT or Quake I think health packs make sense because you should be able to chip away at somebody's health without it just recharging as soon as they go around the corner, and those games are all about item management anyway so having health packs to consider just adds to the skill. In that sense I suppose Halo should have health packs, but I think Halo's emphasis is so much on the intricacies of combat maybe too much item management would spoil things.

In multiplayer games with higher lethality like Rainbow 6, Ghost Recon, Call of Duty etc recharging health is fine because killing a guy is rarely about gradually wearing them down, and gathering items just isn't part of those game worlds.

So it depends, basically.

I think you can actually divide single player games into games where you're supposed to die and games where you aren't. There's some games you play for the experience and dying just gets in the way of you experiencing the game, and there's some games that are all about the challenge and there'd be no tension if you didn't die constantly. I think that's just two broad design philosophies.

lol words

[Pilk Man]

With Fruitbat here - Resistance does that kind of system for the singleplayer mode where you have 4 quadrants of health and you can only heal any quadrants that aren't completely empty until you find a healthpack.
Escape from Butcher Bay also did this.

[WraithMaster]

Whatever happened to the whole "Kill an enemy and nick their Healthpack" Concept?
I miss It. :(

Haha I love that system...

*punches guy, guy leaves a whole rotisserie chicken behind on the cold, dirty ground*

Yay!

*eats*

[Boyinabox]

In singleplayer games I think I prefer the simple one or two shots and you're dead concept. It makes games like the original Rainbow 6 bloody hard, but at the same time adds a huge amount of tension to the game. It also works in Counter Strike but in general I prefer healthpacks in multiplayer games just to help keep up the pace.

In singleplayer games I find the whole concept of healthpacks and medkits completely breaks the atmosphere of realism, yeah walking over a gun to pick it up is silly to but it doesn't seem so utterly contrary to the real world to make it feel idiotic. The only game I think that gets it right is the wallmounted HEV powerpacks and health dispensers in Half Life 1 as it seems to keep in with the theme of "high tech underground research lab" very well.

[Splush]

Wall-mounted health dispensers are definitely preferable to health packs, I'd say. Escape from Butcher Bay has them too, and the camera switches to 3rd person so you get to watch Vin Diesel get impaled by a big needle every time you need health which is bonus.

[WelshTerminator]

I like the system for far cry on the Wii: If you shoot an enemy in the head or kill him with a melee attack you earn some bars in your predator gage. Then you can shake the nunchuck to convert the bars into life.