Organ donations

[Littleshore]

Hi there, as the general pap bit is getting filled with debating, I thought we could debate organ donation in the proper section of the forum.

To start you all off, here is some questions.

What do you think of organ donation?

Should everyone be allowed to donate organs?

Are you for or against organ donation? Why?

Should people who want to donate organs have a card saying so, or should the people who do not want to donate have a card, making the rest of the population candidates for donation?

[Mr stabby]

I will donate when the time comes. I just hate the thought of dying so the constant carrying of a card that says "When I die..." is worrying that it might get to me. But I signed up and will probably carry the card round with me anyway.

[Sloth]

well, i have two friends would are surviving with multi transplants...
one had three kidney transplants... another had a kidney, spleen, and liver transplant...

so, yeah, i think organ donation is pretty cool. i guess the tricky thing is if a person could allow themselves to be sacrificed to save another. Like a father giving up his heart for his child, etc.
thats a tricky thing because transplants are not 100% successful... it would really suck if a perfectly healthy father died to save a sick child who may not make it themselves...

[maxxy_p]

When you're dead, regardless of what you believe about afterlifes or reincarnation, I don't think anyone believes you're connected to that body any more. You're either somewhere else (in Heaven or Hell or on Earth) or you don't exist at all any more. Why claim rights that your body cannot be touched to save others? Will you still be claiming it's your body in a million years, when all that remains is dust?

Giving your body to science or medicine is also, as a side note, the easiest thing to sign up for I have ever seen. It takes about as much time as signing up to these forums. You can do it here (https://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/how_to_become_a_donor/registration/consent.jsp).

[Twatybollocks]

No-one likes to think if the day they will die. Whenever my wife and I talk about this subject it's uncomfortable but we've both said if either of us die the other should say yes if asked to donate. We can't bring ourselves to get the card though...it makes it too real.

I think the only way around this is to make it that everyone donates unless they register to opt out of donating or to only donate certain organs. This system should be simple with no red tape, you should be able to do it over the internet for example. This way people who really are against the idea can be exempt and those that want to donate or don't mind but can't face the prospect of actually signing up are covered.

BTW A bit extreme here but I think if you say you are against donating on this system, this should set it so you can't receive organs from other doners.

[Pilk Man]

I'm all for organ donation (after all, what's the point in letting them rot in the ground/burn if they can help somebody?) but, IMO, I think it should be those who WANT to donate who carry a card, rather than it being the general rule.

In a roundabout sort of way, I see having to carry a card to hang onto your organs as roughly equivelent to hanging a sign around your neck that says "I do not want to be mugged", with all those who don't have it being robbed left right and center.

[feeshy]

I'm not sure if there are any reliable polls, but from people I've seen the majority are perfectly happy to be a donor. The problem is that it's not really (or doesn't seem) a 'real' or 'important' thing- it's nothing like 'ooh, we've run out of milk, better pop down the shops and get some', as a rubbish example, so it's not something you really think about doing. It's always 'oh yeah, I want to be a donor, but I haven't had the time/forgot/didn't know how/couldn't be bothered', but once you've snuffed it, it's a bit late.

[maxxy_p]

Yeah. Do it right now.

[Twatybollocks]

I'm all for organ donation (after all, what's the point in letting them rot in the ground/burn if they can help somebody?) but, IMO, I think it should be those who WANT to donate who carry a card, rather than it being the general rule.

In a roundabout sort of way, I see having to carry a card to hang onto your organs as roughly equivelent to hanging a sign around your neck that says "I do not want to be mugged", with all those who don't have it being robbed left right and center.

That, my friend is the problem. Most people are ok with the idea in principle but don't see the reason to actually make it legitimate. As the law stands today, thinking it's fab but doing sod all about it means your organs rot with you.

That's why it should be auto-donate unless you say no. And if you say no, no organs for you!

[katt]

My concerns about organ donation are as follows:

1. the yucky weird factor.
2. the threat of rejection by the immune system (even with drugs it sometimes fails and i imagine this is a very horrible experience for someone to go through after getting their hopes up)
3. the possible poor administration of medical care with the intent to procure organs*
4. the blackmarket for organs is also pretty shady although i do not know that much about it

**A doctor (Hootan Roozrokh) in San Luis Obispo, California has been accused by prosecutors of prescribing excessive doses of morphine and sedatives to hasten the death of a disabled man with cerebral palsy and irreversible brain damage, in order to procure his organs for transplant. The case being brought against Dr. Hootan Roozrokh is the first time in US medical history a transplant doctor has ever been charged in this manner.

A concern which many people have about organ donation is that the quality of care which a potential donor may receive may be affected by the arrest and charging of Dr. Roozrokh. Dr. Timothy Pruett, president-elect of the United Network for Organ Sharing UNOS, called the allegations 'horrific.'

This is probably a greater concern for older donors (or handicapped donors apparently).

Anyway something about it does not set well with me although organ donation has many positive aspects and could be considered a noble cause whcih saves lives.

[piemastermike]

only thing that puts me off is the weird factor but I kind of want to

[katt]

I think most people are hesitant to sign an admission on paper that they are going to die at some unplanned time and have their organs removed. otherwise death is more of a shadowy unpleasant thing and not as concrete.

If i had 'organ donor' on my license i would be sort of discouraged everytime i saw it

And it would be very odd to have your unique genetic material living on in someone else's body after your death.....still replicating. gah. :X

[LeoZ]

i think that's quite a nice thought. that even in your death, you can keep someone else alive.

[maxxy_p]

4. the blackmarket for organs is also pretty shady although i do not know that much about itEven if we do away totally with organ donation through the medical system, the black market in organs won't get any smaller. There'll be thousands more people clamouring for organs that they can't get any other way. The black market is always going to be there, but if more people donate there will be less demand on the black market and hence less shady shit going on behind the scenes.

I think most people are hesitant to sign an admission on paper that they are going to die at some unplanned time and have their organs removed. otherwise death is more of a shadowy unpleasant thing and not as concrete.I don't see it as "I am going to die real soon please harvest my organs"; it's "If I die then you can use my body to help others".

[El Fisho]

And it would be very odd to have your unique genetic material living on in someone else's body after your death.....

I don't define my existence by my flesh and blood, and when I'm dead I'm gone from my body and it is not part of me anymore. So I don't have any problems wit that.

I think most people are hesitant to sign an admission on paper that they are going to die at some unplanned time and have their organs removed. otherwise death is more of a shadowy unpleasant thing and not as concrete.

... not as concrete? We're all going to die, that is about the only thing that is concrete about life. I can see what you mean about the card being a kind of reminder of mortality, but if mortality scares or disturbs you its not the cards fault.

[Jimmeh]

My concerns about organ donation are as follows:

1. the yucky weird factor.
2. the threat of rejection by the immune system (even with drugs it sometimes fails and i imagine this is a very horrible experience for someone to go through after getting their hopes up)
3. the possible poor administration of medical care with the intent to procure organs*
4. the blackmarket for organs is also pretty shady although i do not know that much about it


The yucky weird factor I guess can't really be argued as that's just subjective really. I see it as pretty cool to be fair!

Rejection isn't very common and is becoming less so with better medical technology and databases to pick out donors with more compatible organs. But also here I would argue that for example, not having a working liver, would be a very horrible experience in it's own right and risking rejection is something I think most people would do at the time.

I think that the poor administration of medical care is a very very very rare thing to happen if ever. Your quote there reports that this is the *first* time it has ever been documented in US medical history, it also does not say that he was found guilty and is going to jail for it he may have just made a mistake OR the old patient reacted poorly to his medication.

If you take away legitimate organ donation the black market will only increase which is even worse. People will be desperate to save their loved ones and they will be forced to the market which is their only window of opportunity.

[Youlikeyams?]

I see no downside to organ donation - it's not like your dead body will have any other use so why not? Even if rejection happens with one person's organ, another one could easily be swapped in. Plus if you do sign up you can feel a lot better about yourself, since you could well be helping someone in need even after you're gone. Again, it's not like your lifeless corpse will be doing anything else that will require your organs, eh? :p

[Satans Trousers]

Give Me Your Liver.

I think that organ donation is a good idea because, as said above, if your not using it (no offense meant), someone who needs it mays as well have it. Someone can have my organs when I die. What good are they to a dead person?

[katt]

I wonder if many people who get organ donations have a lot of trouble adjusting to the fact have someone elses internal organ. A complete stranger.

Most people don't even like to touch things in very busy, packed public buildings or restrooms in fear of being contaminated by the general dirtiness of 'other' people.

I suppose it depends on how squeamish you are about such things. Personally it would really really bother me unless I could forget about it with time

[LeoZ]

er yeah i think if it was keeping you alive you'd be ok with it.

[Khane]

I think that organ donation is a good idea because, as said above, if your not using it (no offense meant), someone who needs it mays as well have it. Someone can have my organs when I die. What good are they to a dead person?

I agree with that. I just have a slight "yucky" factor with me, I wouldn't like to lose what might matter one day. I'm signed up as a donor after I die, because I sure won't need any organs then o.O
I'm just not sure I'd be up for donating organs while I'm alive. I'm just slightly squeamish when I think about doing it while I'm alive.

[katt]

well I suppose the survival instinct is so strong in people that even fates worse than death are better than death :)

Regardless i am sure it's an odd experience to get an organ transplant. I know I am not the only one who would be really bothered by it (and by 'it' i mean walking around afterwards with someone else's body part)

edit: this is kind of off-topic but a long, long time ago i remember seeing the vhs case for the movie "body parts' and it scared me a bit. This movie was about someone who gets body part transplants that turn out to be satanic/haunted.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101492/

'the transplant was a success then the donor came to take it back'.

I guess this is definitely a film to be avoided right after a transplant

[Jimmeh]

well I suppose the survival instinct is so strong in people that even fates worse than death are better than death :)



Agreed rejection is a very bad experience and I would never want anyone to ever suffer from this. However I would also argue that missing a liver or having complete renal failure is also an equally horrible experience. In that position you don't have the choice between die peacefully and have a chance of living but also possibly die through rejection. You have the choice if dying from fluid building up in your body, possibly damaging your brain through edema causing you to be brain dead in your final days or living a relatively (key word there) normal life with a chance dying from your body fighting itself resulting in a large amount of pain as well.

It's not so clear cut as you make it I think.

[gembird]

I've got a donor card. As much as the thought of dying scares the shit out of me, I also like to think that if someone needed part of me to continue living then they could have it. After all, if you're dead, you don't need to have all your giblets intact.

I also feel that if you've been ill enough to require a transplant, you're probably going to have it- there is a risk of rejection, but it's better than dying a slow and painful death for certain isn't it?

As for whether donation should be opt-in or opt-out, personally I think it should be opt-out. Think about it- when people die without being on the register, the family are usually asked if they are willing to donate that person's organs to someone else. Most of the time, they'll probably say yes. If people are really that horrified by the thought of their organs being in someone else's body, they'll make the effort to take themselves off the register. I know that argument goes both ways, but I do feel very strongly about organ donation, so I got my arse down to the doctors and got a form for a donor card, and I'm not the only one.

[Sloth]

Like I said before, I have a friend who has gone through 3 kidney transplants. In his early twenties he had his first transplant, it failed almost as soon as he received it. He got a second one... it lasted for a while. I met him about 1 or 2 years before he got his third one. He used a home dialysis machine thats pretty handy. Instead of going to the hospital once a week, he just hooks himself up to the machine everyday, so he doesn't feel sick all of the time. They even graph a piece of artery on his arm so he can plug himself in liked like how you plug in your headphones into a walkman. He could live... a while... like that. The condition leaves his bones very brittle and he is covered with scars from surgery he need when he broke them.

His skin was always yellow, but if it wasn't for that you would never know he was sick... the guys has more energy than I could ever think of having. The guy loves women and has tried really hard to find "Mrs. Right", but as soon as he gets close to a girlfriend like that the whole, "Yeah, but you're dying"-subject gets brought up.

The guy isn't afraid to die... he had flatlined on an operating table before... "Its no big deal," he said. Because of that attitude, he was able to put himself through another transplant operation.

You can give all of the the icky comments and bullet points all you like. If your life is going to end or you have lived with an ailment that just makes your life frustrating... if a doctor said a transplant could help or even cure you... you WON'T be thinking about how icky it would be to have someone else's organ in you.

I wonder how many people refuse blood tranfusions...?

oh yeah, when I see my other friend, the one who is alive because of a liver/kindey/spleen transplant, I'm gonna ask him if they all came from the same donor or if they were from more than one and if it makes him feel icky because someone else's organs is in his body.

[katt]

I am sad to read a story about someone who is not able to have what most people take for granted. he obviously is a person of great courage

the weird factor comments come from the perspective of not needing it. and to someone who doesn't need it it seems a terrible fate for a human being. a fate that might be worse than death if it was not for the human instinct to be alive (and to value life)

I'd like to ask god why he made people they realize they will die long before it happens and are able to experience the fear of that unknown. there are some things that bother me about this wacky world and that is one of them.

[faragher]

I'd like to ask god why he made people they realize they will die long before it happens and are able to experience the fear of that unknown. there are some things that bother me about this wacky world and that is one of them.Fear of death is a good thing.
1. It stops us doing really stupid shit
2. It inspires us to make something of ourselves before its too late.

[katt]

well now i have one less question for god :P

*scratches question off list of curious questions*

i still think its a bit rough that people have to live without knowing if there is a complete null after death or not. it might make death less scary if we knew for certain that everything we are is not wiped out when our bodies die

but if there is nothing after death perhaps it is best we don't know for certain


sorry to get off on a tangent

[captain canuck]

I have an organ I'd like to donate to most of the female population...

But seriously; if I have no further use of an organ, i.e. due to accidental death, of course I'd want it (assuming it's still a healthy and viable organ, by any standards) to prolong the health and lifespan of an individual who'd suffer without it. Perhaps I'm biased by a medical history with a whole lot of run-ins with suffering that medical treatment (though not organ replacement - just an artificial device acting to corrrect errors in a natural physiological process) could fix, though.