Free range chicken

[sircheese]

Following channel four's "big food fight" season, and a number of controversial programs about free range chicken and chickens "rights" i was wondering what your opinions were on the way chickens are treated up until there slaughter ?

personally i think that the way chickens are treated at the moment is unsatisfactory as the chickens go through immense amount of pain etc. i have no problem killing or eating chicken or animals for food, but i think that for doing so we should treat the animal/s with respect and so think it is a wise idea if the standards in which we treat chickens was raised to the RSPCA's relatively knew scheme.

if you share the same view as me than you may be interested in the petition which can be found here to improve chickens living standards - http://www.supportchickennow.co.uk/petition/

So whats your opinion?

[Ozzylator]

Isn't battery farming illegal in this country now?

[sircheese]

No not in England, allthough it will be in the next couple of years, where it will be switched for larger cages with roosting nests etc

[gembird]

I signed that petition before :)

I don't agree with battery farming either- the birds have part of their beaks removed so they can't peck each other, which means a lot of money is saved as they can be crammed into even tinier spaces. They lie in their own shit and because they wee when they poo (not exactly, but that's the simple way of explaining it) the ammonia burns them. Farm fresh means that eggs are probably from battery hens.

I used to work for KFC and the origins of the chicken bothered me somewhat. Although it might not be actual chicken.

[katt]

i support organic farming of animals and crops and buy organic over non-organic

However, i believe that mass producing food cheaply to feed hungry people who might not be able to afford to buy organic takes priority over chicken suffering.

although i am sure there are some abuses that could be curbed while still managing to keep costs down. no animal should suffer any more than necessary

[Smokey]

Although I believe battery farming to be cruel and my family always buys free range (it is nice to see free range eggs have become more widely available) these products are more expensive.

People are selfish and although they may want something done they aren't willing to pay the cost themselves. Criminalising battery farming would mean only free range would be available, this means chickens could not be farmed at as high a density. Less chickens (and higher costs) means higher price.

Although people may claim they want battery farming to stop, many would be upset to find their chicken costing extra.

[feeshy]

I do think that many of the people who whinge about 'not being able to afford it' are missing a rather large point. In the era of our grandparents, and possibly parents, meat of any kind was a treat and not a staple, chicken especially (or so I'm lead to believe). In comes intensive farming and suddenly people think they should eat chicken every day (because of the relative cheapness compared to other meats). We don't need to, and probably shouldn't, eat meat every day- if it's feeding a lot of people on a low budget, then you're better off ont buying chicken at all if you can't/won't (which I think is more the case) buy one that was raised ethically. Merging two issues into one, the rate of obesity would probably be lower if the price of chicken went up- fatty foods like takeaways, Turkey Twizzlers, ready meals and so on wouldn't be purchased by those with a low budget. Economize in other areas, fine, but when it comes to a living creature, that really shouldn't be the case.

A quick point to tag on the end- in Hugh's Chicken Run, he said that one of the main problems was labelling. I think this is absolutely true- unless you're buying a whole chicken or breasts or similar, products don't say wheere the chicken in them comes from. I don't think you can even buy, for example, free range chicken nuggets, which is a shame. A problem I've noticed lately is butchers- you assume that because you're buying from a specialist as opposed to a supermarket, you're buying better welfare. Is this true? I have no idea, but doubt it. Nothing is labelled, and I doubt anyone remembers to ask.

[katt]

Excellent idea! ^ Why don't you become the first one to give up weekly chicken and be a spokesman for the poor masses to tell them how it went before they commit themselves to a diet of straight rice and beans and tofu cakes

[Tweekish]

Merging two issues into one, the rate of obesity would probably be lower if the price of chicken went up- fatty foods like takeaways, Turkey Twizzlers, ready meals and so on wouldn't be purchased by those with a low budget.

Chicken is not a fatty food, its the crap that is added to it that turns a healthy option into something unhealthy. Thats fine in moderation as long as you do enough excerise to get rid of it later. So if you were to put the price of chicken up, you would find that instead of eating less ready meals with chicken in, people would switch to something else. Burgers, chips, sausages, korma..... All without increasing their exercise.

To sum it up, you dont get fat by what you eat. You get fat by eating too much of the wrong stuff and not exercising enough.

Plus, the last time I checked there wasnt any chicken in a Turkey Twizzler.

As for the OP, when I buy chicken or eggs (which is practically never at the moment) I buy free range/organic because I think it tastes better. Happy chickens = yummy dinner.

[GorillaBearBear]

i support organic farming of animals and crops and buy organic over non-organic

However, i believe that mass producing food cheaply to feed hungry people who might not be able to afford to buy organic takes priority over chicken suffering.

although i am sure there are some abuses that could be curbed while still managing to keep costs down. no animal should suffer any more than necessary

Totally agree, basically. Being quite middle class and fairly well off, there is no reason for me not to buy free range organic stuff, but my mum pointed out recently that when she was a child, chicken was too expensive for many people to have very often, and it was only the introduction of battery farming methods that made it such a ubiquitous meat now.

For me, I don't see the extra £2 or whatever on some chicken as that big a deal, but I'm sure there are people who do, and while I am all for animal rights, I would never support animal rights over human needs, I guess. I'm sure there must be a happy medium where chickens can be battery farmed, but not in tiny cages where they can't move, and that is something I would support wholeheartedly.

[Noo_Noo]

As for the OP, when I buy chicken or eggs (which is practically never at the moment) I buy free range/organic because I think it tastes better. Happy chickens = yummy dinner.

This is very true. Non-free range chicken tastes of practically nothing in my opinion.

My mum told me that when money was incredibly tight a couple of months ago she went and bought the cheapest chicken on the market.
On unpacking it and examining it at home later, it looked like it was in a lot of pain before its eventual death - broken bones with blood clots in the break, old dislocated leg joints and hot burns on the upper leg where it couldn't stand up to move.

Given that they have a short life as it is, the life that they have should be as friendly and cruelty-free as possible.

[argh]

I don't eat meat because when I realised how animals were being treated, it wasn't as easy to find organic meats.

Also, with the needing to feed people, most people seriously overestimate how much a serving of meat is. Most people are eatting a few servings of meant in their steak or chop (a serving is 50-100 gram). Peanut butter (and nuts) also counts as a meat alternatives because of their protein.

If you're eatting the recommended amount of meat, you're really not going to have too much of a problem paying for it to be cruelty free.

[Svelter]

Don't call me an arsehole. Get out of my shop!

[feeshy]

Chicken is not a fatty food, its the crap that is added to it that turns a healthy option into something unhealthy.

That's what I meant though. I would imagine that the majority of people concerned eat chicken ready put in things (as opposed to buying fresh)- it's much cheaper, easier, and children are more likely to eat it. It's those kind of products that are the worst both ethically and nutritionally (it's poor quality meat, bulked out with all sorts of nasties with a load of fat).

Building slightly on what was said about overestimation of portion size, another thing that most people don't seem to do is get their value for money, even if you're spending slightly more per kilo for free range. You always find people buying/using breast meat, which is the most expensive part and most likely artificially expensive. However, if you go for cheaper parts like things, drumsticks and wings, you're spending less but getting much better flavour and texture. Buying a whole chicken works out cheaper than buying cuts of meat, and you've still got a meal even when you've stripped it to the bone (stock into soup).

[gembird]

That's what I meant though. I would imagine that the majority of people concerned eat chicken ready put in things (as opposed to buying fresh)- it's much cheaper, easier, and children are more likely to eat it. It's those kind of products that are the worst both ethically and nutritionally (it's poor quality meat, bulked out with all sorts of nasties with a load of fat).

This is true, back home with Mum I live in an area which is quite poor, because people are either from farming families (and farming has gone tits up in recent years) or they've moved from the cities because they can't afford to live there any more. Even though it's a rural area, people still get most of their chicken from KFC, and having seen the food there first hand I can say that it isn't the best quality- it's not diseased, but it is very cheap. The only way people can afford fast food chicken is because it's that cheap, and at those prices it almost certainly comes from battery hens, or at least a very intensive farming system. Unfortunately since most of the local butchers have closed, it makes it hard to find chicken that has been reared locally in a decent environment.

At university, I tend not to eat chicken very much because unless you're buying a whole chicken and making the most of every bit of it you can end up spending a lot of your food budget on meat. Not only that, but as we've said, cheap chicken is generally not from anywhere that treats the birds properly; if I can only afford chicken that's from battery farms, I'd rather have none at all. Last time I ate chicken was at my boyfriend's house, and it was organic.

I'm not saying I'll go without meat totally if I can't find organic- organic food can be horribly expensive and it just isn't feasible all the time on student budgets. However, I do try to find the best of what's available.

[cyber_turnip]

i support organic farming of animals and crops and buy organic over non-organic

However, i believe that mass producing food cheaply to feed hungry people who might not be able to afford to buy organic takes priority over chicken suffering.

although i am sure there are some abuses that could be curbed while still managing to keep costs down. no animal should suffer any more than necessary

As usual Katt provides my viewpoint without me having to type anything up.

[2-D]

i really dont agree with battery farming chickens. but sometimes i just cant afford to buy free range chicken. so itry and buy as little as i can if i cant afford it but even then i still end up buying some. thats whats going to be hard because some people just cant afford to pay for free range. its a shame really and for that fact i think that chickend will always be treated rather poorly.

[katt]

I have noticed a taste difference between organic and non-organic although I don't think non-organic is quite as disgusting as some people have been saying in here :P

At least not a brand like 'purdue' which claims to be all natural on the package (i think eventually terms like 'all natural' will have to have legal definitions to prevent companies from giving the wrong impression). I have never noticed the meat looking particularly gross or unclean (or anything that would suggest the chicken suffered a horrible death).

There is a difference in the size of the muscle however.

I'd agree that some overprocessed meat does start to enter the territory of disgusting though which is why I don't eat meat in some restaurants. I don't even like eating deli meats that much.

Some chicken products are made by throwing the whole carcass into a machine that grinds it up and separates the bones from the meat automatically. which is pretty :(

[feeshy]

Just to point out as well that there are several 'mid range' options for both meat and eggs- the former, you have the RSPCA's new Freedom Food label, and possibly another type of barn raising with lower stocking densities and at least some stimulation, and for eggs, you have barn. Something that seems strange is that in many supermarkets, you only have a choice of ridiculously cheap, slightly more expensive (yet still intensively reared), and the only free range alternative is a mega luxury brand at very high prices. So you don't have a lot of choice. Despite the criticism, Tesco does at least have their own brand in free range and 'Willow Farm' or something which I believe is mid range. And free range turkey too.

Edit- and if we're on taste, I know for certain that free range eggs way outperform battery eggs for cooking. The yolks are a deep orange and don't break easily, unlike the pathetic yellow battery yolks that take some mega skills not to break.

[katt]

in the US i have never noticed three tiers of meat. Usually it is the standard (which is about 5 dollars a pound for chicken) or the high-end totally organic (which is about 7 dollars a pound).

It is the same for beef: there is the standard and then the slightly higher-end organic (although i think beef has more branding possibilities because some people prefer '100 percent angus' ;i don't think there is a preference for chicken species..i think the chicken is usually cross bred anyway)

[faragher]

The issue is not organic vs non-organic. In fact the issue is not even battery farming.

The real issue is stock density. We don't need to ban battery farming specifically, what we need to have is regulations concerning the maximum density that stock can be kept at. At the moment, your barn eggs/chicken are still an intensively reared product, with the animals packed in. There is nothing wrong with the "battery" idea (all this refers to is the use of multiple cages) really - what is the problem is the size and nature of the cages.

We need to say that each animal should have a minimum amount of space - this would ensure that all farming methods still guaranteed a minimum living standard.

I think that this is really important - and I think that we have to get away from the idea that everyone is somehow entitled to certain types of food, irrespective of the way in which that food is produced.

I remember in my childhood eating stew for weeks on end - no meat, just lots of potatoes and carrots and bread. A bit of cheese now and again. More recently, I have been reduced to the occasional week of baked potatoes and beans. It turns out that this will not kill me - it may be dull, but it is still food.

I suppose we have to decide which is more important to us - cheap mass produced (and often fairly cruel) meat, or animal welfare.

[cyber_turnip]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to faragher again.