We're all going to DIE!*

[Jimmeh]

I'm not entirely sure if this qualifies as a debate or not, as such it will probably come across as pretentious babbling and a bit "stream of consciousness". (lol all philosophy ever)

Anyhow, the inspiration for this thread has come about from the recent reports of the TU-24 comet recently and re-reading the LHC thread in this forum. It would seem recently that there are many events which will apparently kill everyone or destroy our society (economic collapse, oil crisis) and I felt that we were just in an unlucky time. But then not being a sensationalist idiot and being a bit more scientist and objective, I began to think.

Throughout pretty much *all* of recorded history we have been in the mindset of "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!". Whether this is through religious prophecy or scientific thesis we have had this impression that we are all going to see the end of humanity as we know it. But why?

My current feeling is that this could give us either a sense of purpose, importance and direction or an ability to blame our failings on the world around us rather then ourselves. Purpose and direction could come from willing against this dooms day and trying our best to avoid it (Read: Research into nuclear power/Repenting your sins/Burning the sinners). OR it could allow us to have a failsafe for our shortcomings and poor choice in actions (Read: A HUGE quantity of things Ancient Greece did/*don't want to raise any recent political issues/wars*)

Tis an interesting though in my opinion though, how we self inflict a sense of urgency and chaos for whichever reasons. Anyone have any thoughts? Has someone already bought this up and is much more articulate then me (In which case, wiki link plz).

*Yes you're a smartass, all of us will die someday etcetc. (That is unless I figure out how cell atrophy works and how to stop it!)

[Pilk Man]

We're fucking around with making universes and black holes.

If this doesn't wipe us out, nothing will.

TL;DR

We all die, so enjoy the time you have and go out with a big smile.

[pebble_rebel]

We're fucking around with making universes and black holes.

If this doesn't wipe us out, nothing will.

TL;DR

We all die, so enjoy the time you have and go out with a big smile.

No where not. If i explained this once, Ive explained this a thousand times. The people at Cern aren't fucking around with anything cosmological. Everything is happening at a tiny quantum scale. There are a jiggillion things that are more likely to kill us. Your ignorance may be one one of them.

[Jimmeh]

We're fucking around with making universes and black holes.

If this doesn't wipe us out, nothing will.

TL;DR

We all die, so enjoy the time you have and go out with a big smile.

This is perfect backing for my argument. A firm belief that we are *finally* going to do it this time. No really, definitely this time. Okay well it didn't happen this time but seriously this new thing will finish us off I swear it. Repeat ad nauseum.

[gembird]

I sometimes wonder if thinking like that is a subconscious attempt to distract from our everyday worries, like paying the bills or whether that guy/girl at work likes us. Worrying about things you can't change means you're not thinking about the things that are important right at this minute.

Personally I gave up on worrying about nuclear war/comets hurtling towards Earth/being sucked into a black hole a long time ago. I still worry about silly things, but I've come to the conclusion that if anything like that happens, either I'll live, in which case no worries- I'm alive, or I'll be killed straight away, in which case no worries as I'll be dead and won't care.

[Pilk Man]

Personally I gave up on worrying about nuclear war/comets hurtling towards Earth/being sucked into a black hole a long time ago. I still worry about silly things, but I've come to the conclusion that if anything like that happens, either I'll live, in which case no worries- I'm alive, or I'll be killed straight away, in which case no worries as I'll be dead and won't care.
This.

The way I see it, we only have a very short life to lead, so what's the point in worrying about things like how you're going to die? Enjoy it while you have it or you'll spend it sat at home, worrying about trivial things that, in the end, mean very little.

Looking at it from another perspective, what are the chances that the world will end in your 80-90 year lifespan, considering it's been here quite happily for the past..what..200 million years? I'd put money on the fact that it'll still be here in one piece when I die, if it weren't for the fact that I couldn't collect.

[Splush]

We are the only animals who know that they're going to die, and as a result we can't seem to stop obsessing over it. I don't think "end of the world" scares need to be engineered, they're just inherently so sexy and exciting to us that we can't help grabbing on to them and blowing them out of proportion, even though, if I'm not mistaken, the world has resolutely failed to end every time thus far.

[Socks]

According to Big Three Monotheistic Beliefs, You don't die, your physical body does, but not your soul. It goes up to heaven or hell, depending on either the righteous or mischievious actions you have committed in life.

Plus, There's lots of variables for a person to die. Getting hit by a bus, getting TB, Getting trapped in the cupboard for days without food or water, skydiving without a parachute or even dying of age, etc. To me, I don't particularly look forward to my cease of existence, instead I look forward to the things in life I could accomplish, such as how many marshmallows I could stick in my mouth while simultaneously saying "Chubby Bunny", and other things, like passing my exams.

Yep.

Tl;dr:

You start a silly debate, I give you a silly answer.
Oh, and death is overrated.

[Splush]

I suppose a lot of religious ideas really talk up the end of the world as an important event to look forward to, and kind of the reason for being here in the first place. If armageddon/judgement day/whatever it's called is going to be the most important thing that will ever happen, then it's pretty exciting to believe that it's going to happen to us in our lifetime.

[Pie hunter D]

It's simple.
Without death life has no meaning...

[katt]

The reason people think its gonna happen this time is because of how rapidly technology has advanced from what it was in such a short time. It appears to be leading up to something.

and all that stuff about the mark of the beast is eerie when we all have ID numbers given to us by the government at birth. I believe a lot of the bible was metaphors for things.

anyway, I really don't care because there is nothing i can do about it. why worry about something that likely won't be your fault?

theres something sinister (or bizarre) in the way all of this was set up: bunch of animals with the ability to reason left on earth without explanation, constantly fearing death. constantly struggling to get resources. what the hell!!!???

[Zhyl]

For some reason going to uni/finding love/getting married/having kids all seem like the distant future but my death of old age feels almost imminent.

[Jam_Hunter]

I guess generally as a species, we are pretty egocentric. We can be emphatic and understanding about others, but at the end of the day, you can only experience the world from your own point of view.
I suppose it is difficult to accept that the world doesn't revolve around you when you feel like the only one in it, so we all want something to happen in our lifetime that gives us some kind of meaning. Like dying in some awesome way.

[Elbowman-iac]

I often use the whole 'what difference will it make' thing in my head to avoid doing work. Just because I know whatever I do will in the end be pointless as far as I can tell, my purpose is just to be happy in myself, and if I can along the way, make others happy.

[maxxy_p]

I often use the whole 'what difference will it make' thing in my head to avoid doing work. Just because I know whatever I do will in the end be pointless as far as I can tell, my purpose is just to be happy in myself, and if I can along the way, make others happy.Yeah, actions have consequences though. If you avoid doing the washing-up cos it won't make you happy, you're going to have an even sadder face when it's piled high. Live for happiness, but not just for the moment.

[Paradigm^]

We are the only animals who know that they're going to die.Minor bumpity, but I'd be interested to see what proof you have of that. I'm not suggesting you're wrong, but it seems a bit of a big thing to assume. You can't really ask a squirrel if it's made a will yet (well, you could, but you wouldn't get much of an answer), and animals certainly have the fight-or-flight instinct, so there's at least a concept of danger, if not death.

Got anything interesting for me to read on the subject?

[Splush]

I don't have anything to back that up, I just thought it was self-evident, I might be wrong though. There's a whole field of comparative psychology investigating that sort of thing but I don't have anything specific to link. I suppose animals like dolphins and simians show some ability for abstract thought and evidence of consciousness, but I think there's still a significant leap between that type of consciousness and the type exhibited by humans. Animals act to avoid death in an instinctive sense, but don't fear it in the same sense that we do because they don't (can't?) posses any concept of what death is. Pre-homo sapiens versions of humans are thought to have had the capacity for language before they evolved the capacity for sentience, and there's a few animal species that can use language to various extents, but I think homo sapiens are the only ones considered to really be sentient. If you can't subjectively perceive your relationship to your environment and your place within a species I don't think you can really get to grips with the inevitability of your death.

I think if there are any animals which are aware of their inevitable death, squirrels probably aren't the place to start looking. I think even saying they have a concept of danger is questionable, because the word 'concept' might imply that they use a conscious process of reasoning to decide what's dangerous, which is a different thing to an instinctual reaction.

[Paradigm^]

My use of squirrels was fairly arbitrary, I'll admit. As for other creatures being 'sentient' or otherwise - I don't really know which definition of sentient you're using but I've certainly read about experiments where they put stickers on the foreheads of monkeys and put them in front of a reflective surface to see if they make the connection that the guy in the shiny thing is actually them. IIRC the higher orders of monkey (chimps, orangutangs) took one look in the mirror and promptly took the sticker off their heads. As I said, I'm not sure in what context you're using the word 'sentient', but experiments like that certainly prove self-awareness in primates.

[Splush]

Yeah, the definition of sentience/consciousness is a problem, I don't think there's any widely-accepted objective definition or test. The mirror test determines some self-awareness, dolphins have been found to recognise themselves in mirrors as well, along with some other animals I can't recall, but it's hard to say whether it's evidence of enough self-awareness to form the concept of inevitable death.

[Pie hunter D]

I'm kinda seeing this from a common sense perspective here. Natural instinct isn't going to tell us that a comet is about to impact with earth, and where, how big it is, how much it's going to wipe out etc etc. No, science does that.

Unless these Squirrels have a crazy network underground so advanced we just havn't found it yet I seriously doubt they'd be any the wiser.
I'm pretty sure that if the dinosaurs and all other forms of prehistoric life had a clue they would have sought out shelter and made preperations...

[Lawrence]

So I'm assuming you guys are all scared of death?

[Splush]

Not really, but ask me when I'm 70 and perhaps I will be. Or maybe I'll be looking forward to death. Either way, I suspect I'll be less ambivalent about death the older I get!

I think being in the process of dying is the scary thing, not actually being dead itself. Being shot in the head and dying instantly isn't so scary, but having a stroke and lying half-paralysed in a hospital bed for months before eventually slipping away in the night surrounded by people who don't care about you is scary as hell.

[Lawrence]

yeah, that's why i would rather die outside doing something for people than to be an accountant nd have a heart attack in my cubicle...

[gembird]

Yeah, like Splush said, it's the process of dying that's scary rather than actually being dead. What scares me is that I might die slowly and painfully from cancer or something rather than dying in my sleep or in some interesting but quick way. I think the worst thing (for me at least) is being aware of dying- if you don't know when it'll happen, it seems more abstract.

[Pie hunter D]

Might sound a bit strange, but I made my peace with death a while ago after coming within a ball hair of kicking the bucket no less than 3 times.

It really isn't so bad y'know.