Donnie Darko- Discuss (Spoilers FS)

[Mr stabby]

I got this dvd for my birthday and watched in amazment. it is one of the best movies ever made(my opinion)
The Things i dont get are when donnies girlfriend dies and frank comes out as a human. then gets shot in the eye. you see an eye injury in the cinema.
At the end he goes back in time and gets crushed when he knows the space junk will fall. He knows whats going to happen so why die.
Please explain and discuss.

[seaempty]

Beats me! What I thought is that all these people are trying to make the temporal distportion happen - grandma death had been waiting all her life for this moment - but why would Frank want to help if it would ultimately mean his death? If he hadn't stopped Donnie being crushed then he would have survived? or was the whole plan to save his mum and sister? Argh!!!!!!

[Katie_D]

Right,i will just start by saying you are both amazing people for liking this film,i agree completley,this film is great!!!!!!!!

Ok,the film is very very complicated! I have two ideas on this film-
1.Frank the bunny travelled back in time to save Donnie,and Donnie has the knowledge to time travel. We know frank saved donnie because he caused donnie to "sleep walk" at the right time so he didnt get squished. All through the film as you will know,Frank tells Donnie to do this. Near the end of the film Donnies girlfriend gets killed by Frank (at first i thought it was the guy dressed as a clown but then realised american cars have the drivers side on the left) since Frank killed donnies soulmate, donnie killed frank, this would of caused the whole "frank coming back to save donnie" thing never to happen,so they reset time to BEFORE frank came back. Donnie dies,Gretchen lives,etc,etc,etc..

Idea 2. If you listen to the film it states that time travel would only be possible if a fast moving object flew into a worm hole and thats what happens with donnies mother and sister when they are on the plane. Donnie understands the concept of time travel but does not have the means to do it. The film states that the world will end at a certain time and just before it the wormholes appear. Anyway,when they fly into the wormhole, they go back to before frank was alive.

To be honest,i really dont know,but they're my two ideas. Lol.

Check out the website, www.donniedarko.com its excellent and may help you to understand. Also,take your friends advise,watch it again,you will eventually get it!

[RamblinYeti]

donnie darka is one of those fantastic movies ytou can watch over and over and not get bored-i love it-its taken a long time to get the recognition it deserves-but it seems to be getting it now.

[donkey_pie]

It's my favourite film! :p

My theory is quite similar to Katie_D's, but I'll put it in my words neways... if you watch the extras you'll get a much better idea, but it's still not supposed to be clear, thats one of the things I love about it.

The one thing I debate on most is whether it was all real and actually happening. I think that it was, however I sometimes wonder whether it was the drugs he was taking, or a dream. Here goes anyway.

Donnie sees Frank, a sort of prophet who is in the form of Donnie's sisters boyfriend, who shows him what will happen if he doesn't die on the night that the plane engine crashes into his bedroom. He is saved by Frank, in theory, and given a month of his life in which he does a lot of good things.. he uncovers a paedophile, he falls in love with his soulmate.. at the end of this time his soulmate is ran over by his sister's boyfriend in his living form... Frank. I think this is why Frank is the one showing him what happens.. as he is the one who kills Gretchen (his soul mate). Donnie then shoots Frank in the eye (we see this), and drives up to the mountain to watch the end of the world. We see his mother and sister crashing in a plane.. the very plane with the engine that kills donnie. And he thinks... ahah! He remembers Gretchen saying 'what if you could replace all the bad things in your life with good things'. He then realises that he himself has to do this. He has to replace this time he has gained with good things. His death causing good things...

If he had died.. Gretchen, his Mum, sister and sister's boyfriend would all still be alive.. and his teacher would probably still have her job.

I think that all this fits.. although I'm never sure, but thats what I love about it. The website is amazing, tells you more.

[Katie_D]

Yay!!!!!!! Thanks for kinda agreeing with me,I wasnt sure if i was right or not.

[Mr stabby]

Originally posted by RamblinYeti
donnie darka is one of those fantastic movies ytou can watch over and over and not get bored-i love it-its taken a long time to get the recognition it deserves-but it seems to be getting it now.

its also one of those films you can watch loads of times (3 last night and once tonight) and not understand.

[mr jones]

yhe first time i watched this film i'd dropped and E and i understood it so well. unfortunatly its not quite so clear anymore... iv;e still watche dit over 20 times and love it so much :)
it has a diffrent meaning to everyone, so just watch it and figure it for yourself
amazing amazing film :)

[J-R]

I'll try and reach the required level of geekness for this. I should first say that everything in this film can be interpreted in several different ways, this is one set of theories.

OK, if the universe were ever to end it would first break away from the normal universe, forming a 'tangent'. The two universe's would then meet at one point before the end of the world, that one point is when Frank saves Donnie at the start of the film. Donnie then manages to return to the tangent at the end of the film to bring back the real universe.

So why's Frank there? Frank guides Donnie to get the plane to bring back the old universe. If Donnie hadn't destroyed the school he wouldn't have met Gretchen. If he hadn't been guided to Patrick Swayze's paedofile mansion his mum wouldn't have gone on the plane and caught a different flight. It was Donnie's fate to kill Frank and Frank had to guide him to it.

And why does Donnie die? First, there's the talk about the Graham Greene book where Donnie says 'the world wasn't ready for them' or something along those lines, maybe Donnie realises his life is ill fated, which is why the tangent universe ended in catastrophe (Frank, Gretchen). Another interpretation could be that at the end everyone cannot remember what happened at a conscious level, but have subconscious recollections. It may be that Donnie cannot remember what happens and laughs because of subconscious thoughts.

OK, the first part of this was based on scientific theories by Hawkins and the like. Also, this is a very superficial version reguritated by me from reading up. Don't worry if there's anything you don't understand, I don't really either.

Feel free to give me a minus rating for wasting your time.

[Space Prawn]

This is from the official site.

Following are pages from the book by Roberta Sparrow, Philosophy of Time Travel

The Tangent Universe.
...The Primary Universe is fraught with great peril. War, plague, famine and natural disaster are common. Death comes to us all. The Fourth Dimension of Time is a stable construct, though it is not impenetrable. Incidents when the fabric of the fourth dimension becomes corrupted are incredibly rare. If a Tangent Universe occurs, it will be highly unstable, sustaining itself for no longer than several weeks. Eventually it will collapse upon itself, forming a black hole within the Primary Universe capable of destroying all existence.
Water And Metal
Water and Metal are the key elements of Time Travel. Water is the barrier element for the construction of Time Portals used as gateways between Universes at the Tangent Vortex. Metal is the (transitional) element for the construction of Artefact Vessels.
The Artefact And The Living
When a Tangent Universe occurs, those living nearest to the Vortex will find themselves at the epicentre of a dangerous new world. Artefacts provide the first sign that a Tangent Universe has occurred. If an Artefact occurs, the Living will retrieve it with great interest and curiosity. Artefacts are formed from metal, such as an Arrowhead from an ancient Mayan civilization, or a Metal Sword from Medieval Europe. Artefacts returned to the Primary Universe are often linked to religious iconography; as their appearance on Earth seems to defy logical explanation. Divine Intervention is deemed the only logical conclusion for the appearance of the Artefact.
The Living Receiver
The Living Receiver is chosen to guide the Artefact into position for its journey back to the Primary Universe. No one knows how or why a Receiver will be chosen. The Living Receiver is often blessed with Fourth Dimensional Powers. These include increased strength, telekinesis, mind control, and the ability to conjure fire and water. The Living Receiver is often tormented by terrifying dreams, visions and auditory hallucinations during his time within the Tangent Universe. Those surrounding the Living Receiver, known as the Manipulated, will fear him and try to destroy him.
The Manipulated Living
The Manipulated Living are often the close friends and neighbours of the Living Receiver. They are prone to irrational, bizarre, and often violent behaviour. This is the unfortunate result of their task, which is to assist the Living Receiver in returning the Artefact to the Primary Universe. The Manipulated Living will do anything to save themselves from Oblivion.
The Manipulated Dead
The Manipulated Dead are more powerful than the Living Receiver. If a person dies within the Tangent Dimension, they are able to contact the Living Receiver through the Fourth Dimensional Construct. The Fourth Dimensional Construct is made of Water. The Manipulated Dead will manipulate the Living Receiver using the Fourth Dimensional Construct (see Appendix A and B). The Manipulated Dead will often set an Ensurance Trap for the Living Receiver to ensure that the Artefact is returned safely to the Primary Universe. If the Ensurance Trap is successful, the Living Receiver is left with no choice but to use his Fourth Dimensional Power to send the Artefact back in time into the Primary Universe before the Black Hole collapses upon itself.
Dreams
When the Manipulated awakens from their Journey into the Tangent Universe, they are often haunted by the experience in their dreams. Many of them will not remember. Those who do remember the Journey are often overcome with profound remorse for the regretful actions buried within their Dreams, the only physical evidence buried within the Artefact itself, all that remains from the lost world. Ancient myth tells us of the Mayan Warrior killed by an Arrowhead that had fallen from a cliff, where there was no Army, no enemy to be found. We are told of the Medieval Knight mysteriously impaled by the sword he had not yet built. We are told that these things occur for a reason.

Living Receiver:
Donnie Darko (died October 2, 1988)
Manipulated Dead:
Frank (Anderson), Gretchen Ross (not her real name)
Manipulated Living:
Everyone else in the film

A tangent universe is created. Those at its epicentre are those in the film. Donnie, the Living Receiver, kills Frank while the Tangent Universe still exists, and Gretchen Ross is killed while the Tangent Universe still exists. They are the Manipulated Dead (MD). They are also the only ones who seem to understand him in any way.
Donnie’s supernatural powers are show when he manages to strike an axe through solid bronze (the dog statue at school). He is also able to see slightly into the future, hence the bubble-tubes projecting from everyone’s chest.
The irrational behaviour of others is shown by evil mullet-and-goatee boy trying to kill Donnie on two separate occasions.
The Artefact is the Jet Engine. Donnie has to get it back into the Primary Universe. He does this, guided by Frank, by burning down Jim Cunningham’s house. This means, the plane carrying the engine that falls through into the Tangent Universe, will take off at the right time FROM the Tangent Universe, and the engine will fall into the Primary Universe.
The only reason Donnie dies while in the Primary Universe is because Frank, a Manipulated Dead, was there to get him out of the house. Frank as an MD only exists in the Tangent Universe.


The engine that kills Donnie comes from a plane in the Tangent Universe. In both universes, it has no serial number, because in both universes, it is from the future falling into the past.

[Dibbie]

It's a well directed and intelligent film but I don't like it for one simple reason: Everything above

If they had bothered to explain what was going on and not left it up to you to HAVE to buy the DVD or read the entire website for the relevent information! I for one believe that there should be more intelligent film-making (less of the "Scary Movies" and more of the Donnie Darko school) but there is nothing in that statement that says we should have to research movies to understand them the way they were intended to be understood.

Oh yeah, narly forgot - most people seem to miss the fact that this is a reworking of 2 Jimmy Stewart movies: Harvey and It's a Wnderful Life. If you haven't seen them you should because it'll make more sense than it does right now.

[J-R]

I disagree, I kind of think everything posted by Space Prawn is really just for people interested in science theories. I think the film stands up without knowing the ending because it raises questions and gives the characters greater prominence.

[Space Prawn]

You have to give credit to the fact that Donnie Darko, through being one of the most unconventional films to break into mainstream cinema, has been beautifully marketed. The whole film is beautiful; the direction, the score, the way everything is subtle and elegant and graceful.

It works on two levels... those who like it because it's a wonderful piece of cinema, and those who want to find out more. The information on the website is for the latter, where they're unsatisfied with not having every loose end tied up.

I reckon DD's a powerful statement about how, with determination, you can get pretty much anything through the hollywood system, even on a budget of 4 million dollars.

[Smartie Popper!]

I've always wondered if there's a reason for the 'fat guy'. Where Donniw wants to kiss Gretchen and she says "also there's a fat guy over there staring at us" and he's outisde the party as well, shining a torch. Is there any reason for him being there?

J-R,I never thought he was laughing becuase of subconcious thoughts, that dosen't really make much sense. I always thought he knew what was going to happen to him, It was only him who knew about the world ending, only him who knew the tangent universe had been created. I thought he was laughing becuase 'he could breathe a sigh of relief becuase there was so much to look forward too' or it was some kind of weird irony or something. Arg, I need to watch it again.

I never found the website to be much help..it actually confused me more. Kept me entertained for a bit though..

[Boom Pie!]

Donnie Darko is fantastic. It is one of those truly great films that makes you think rather than just giving you the answers, and gives you just enough information for you to draw conclusions about the general picture whilst still leaving you with loads of questions about the specifics.

For many of the questions, there probably isn't a correct answer. Which is probably a good thing. If the film's creator turned around and told everyone exactly what happened, I think the film would loose a lot of its appeal.

[Dibbie]

Originally posted by J-R
I disagree, I kind of think everything posted by Space Prawn is really just for people interested in science theories. I didn't mean Space Prawn's very informative post I meant the fact that we need to have a thread where the first question is "What the hell was that all about?"

I agree, as I said in my post, it is a very well directed film and it is shot beautifully but sooooo much more could have been done in the conversation about time-travel between Donnie and his teacher that would have given you a better idea of what wa\s really going on.

To elaborate slightly on the It's a Wonderful Life thing: In the original movie Frank Capra ask us what would happen if you had never been born and takes his character, George Bailey, on a trip through a world where his actions had never taken place. As a result his war-hero brother dies as a child, his childhood boss gets sent to jail for poisoning a family and the local evil entrepreneur takes over the entire town. In DD however, Richard Kelly is asking a slightly different question: What would happen if you lived after your time? Thankfully, due not to a heavenly angel but rather to a tangential universe and a 6ft rabbit-angel-of-death we find out that EVERYTHING goes tits-up.

In asking the slightly different question we get a very different answer and one which provokes a lot of thought. The problem is that the tanget universe, the theories of time-travel and a bunch of whining teens are brought to your attention. It is thought provoking stuff but it was ALWAYS going to appeal to the dissaffected youth. For my money it's not a work of genius but it is a good first movie and I reserve the right to see it as "The Crow" for a new generation of naval-gazing teens.

[I'm Jim Too]

Originally posted by Dibbie
In DD ... Richard Kelly is asking ... : What would happen if you lived after your time? Thankfully, due not to a heavenly angel but rather to a tangential universe and a 6ft rabbit-angel-of-death we find out that EVERYTHING goes tits-up.

I only partially agree with this. Although Donnies adventures end badly many of his actions have a postive effect on his world. He exposes hypocrisy and pedophilia, floods his school (much to the pleasure of his peers) and finds love. When he chooses to die it is for personal reasons rather than for the greater good.

The message behind the film seems more confused to me. Essentially Donnie commits suicide and the film says "If you are prepared to sacrfice everything for a cause that you believe in - then thats ok. However, you should know that not everyone will understand your reasons and the effects of your decision might cause pain to those close to you."

But the really clever thing about DD is the way it presents you with a great character, shows you them entering their prime and then kills them before you knew them. You feel the loss of something that never will be. This film creates a pain that only those who have lost a loved one feel. Its as if Donnie is our child and during the course of the film we are dreaming what his life could have been.

I dont think I've ever encountered a text (book/film) that achieved this so thoughly.

[Ruzdur]

Frank's "ghost" warps Donnie's mind, so that he does all that. The wound you see in the cenima is made by Donnie later. Short: Frank want Donnie dead, so he can live. Nuff said!

[Katie_D]

Ooh ooh ohh!!!!!!! Does anybody know what that chinese girl has to do with anything?!?!?! I know she likes donnie,but why does she always shout shut up and why is she in the film. Any ideas?

[Mr stabby]

just another extra to make the more thinking people think(didnt make sense to me either)
If he had stayed alive he would have been able to stop Gretchen dying though wouldnt he by not going to grandma deaths.
And would the world still end in 24 days 6 hours 42 minutes and 12 seconds(ive seen it that many times i remembered it) when he is dead. if not why??

[Mr stabby]

Originally posted by Pinkerbell
She doesn't, she says "Chut up" ;)

I thought that was hilarious... Oh I feel terrible for laughing though.

dont laugh. chut up ;)
+'ed
So dont you have the answers to my question pinky? ill go looking at the bottom of a bottle. thats where all the answers are.:D

[Tweekish]

What about the hidden easter eggs though? I though the first one you get to was kinda upsetting...
And the pumpkin bit was just plane (geddit!) weird. Cool but weird

[QuasarEinstein]

Originally posted by Mr stabby
just another extra to make the more thinking people think(didnt make sense to me either)
If he had stayed alive he would have been able to stop Gretchen dying though wouldnt he by not going to grandma deaths.
And would the world still end in 24 days 6 hours 42 minutes and 12 seconds(ive seen it that many times i remembered it) when he is dead. if not why??

Frank said the universe would end and it did. The tangent universe ended when the turbine went back in time and killed him. So Frank didnt lie.
Also, the chinese girl is there to boast his ego. He doesnt believe hes important to anyone, then he finds out that he is loved so the course of his life will affect many people.

[donkey_pie]

Originally posted by QuasarEinstein
Also, the chinese girl is there to boast his ego. He doesnt believe hes important to anyone, then he finds out that he is loved so the course of his life will affect many people.

Wow! That's a great interpretation, never thought of that. She's one of my favourite characters, so that really adds to it for me +

[Hannisburg]

after watching it for the first time, it made me go into some kind of a confused/trance like thing. i went really really quiet and just stared at things a lot - like the lights were on but nobody was home. it had a weird effect on me, and i didnt get what was going on either but ive got the dvd now and i love the film to bits and u'll be glad to hear it doesnt make me psycho everytime!

[bittersweet]

ok, here;s my interpretation of the filum...

donnie is afraid of death, more importantly, he is afraid of dying alone. the film opens with how he will die because its important that he escapes this fate, is given a second chance. For without this second chance he would die with completely different ideas.

The main theme is the fact that he thinks he will die alone, this scares him. His girlfriend dies to show him that everyone dies, and it hurts to lose some one (so his family and friends will hurt to lose him). He kills frank, showing him that he has power, frank is a manifestation of his anger.

Mrs sparrow is important because it shows him that everyone has a meaning, they may not look like it but every does amazing things. (i dont understand a huge amount of the time travel stuff, i'll stick to emotions).

During his psychoanaylsis we see him talking about his fear of dying alone which is linked to him feeling like he has no important role in this world, no one will miss him.

this is then contrasted with the effect he has on his school, the way he causes an uproar and manages so challenge peoples opinions, he even unwittingly reveals a local hero to be a paedophile, making his life even more important. the chinese girl helps him to see how many lives he has touched without realising him.

all of this comes to a climax when he realises that he is ready to accept his fate, and that he was wrong about everyone dying alone. which is why he goes to bed laughing.

end.

[Inverurie Jones]

Simple as that...

[bittersweet]

i get the feeling i'm being mocked.

never said i was right, thats just what i got from it. donnies fear of death is a major major theme for me, i think its what links everything together.

[donkey_pie]

Originally posted by bittersweet
i get the feeling i'm being mocked.

never said i was right, thats just what i got from it. donnies fear of death is a major major theme for me, i think its what links everything together.

I like that theory, his fear of death is most definately important. Also his fear of a lack of hungry hungry hippos :D

[Inverurie Jones]

Originally posted by bittersweet
i get the feeling i'm being mocked.

never said i was right, thats just what i got from it. donnies fear of death is a major major theme for me, i think its what links everything together.

Not by me...that's still fairly tangled compared to most films these days. All car chases and people firing weapons on automatic when there is no need or flying through the air in front of explosions that look impressive but don't have much force...erm...anyway...

[bittersweet]

ok, its a deep film, but its not the most profound thing ever!

sometimes you can look into these things too much (although i would like to understand the time travel thing more, i really dont think its as complicated as people expect).

[Piedude]

Very funny film...

Has anyone got more news on the remade version of it out late summer in US? I know they said theyd add and extra half and hour and change the visuals/music with more money...