Humans and Earth

[William Wallace]

VHEMT.ORG "May we live long and die out" (vhemt.org)

Wiccans and Zero Pop. Growth (http://www.witchvox.com/words/words_2000/e_population05.html)


Some meat for you blokes to chew on. Are we a parasite of earth and should stop breeding? :D

[manny]

shall i move this to debates?

might get a better response there.

[William Wallace]

Yes, thank you.

[rabid anarchist]

yes.
We are breeding like rabbits, only with no predators to cull our population.
There are far too many people, and to make room for us all, and to produce enough food to supply (half) the world with (more) food (than is necessary; but i wont go into that)

Therefore we are destroying the environment, (and by cutting down the rainforest, we are also dangerously decreasing the amount of oxygen released into our atmosphere) and overrunning the globe.
And doing severe damage to wildlife and habitat.
Which in turn, will damage us.

[PiesInTheory]

Global limits to the number of children? Perhaps china is onto something (they do do that right?)

[rabid anarchist]

im not sure.
They have the largest population of any country..

or were you being sarcastic?

[Norbington]

That's why they've limited every family to one child

it doesn't really work though

for example, it's a fact that most parents (it could be higher in the chinese culture) want a boy as a child so that they can carry on the family name etc etc. This sometimes leads to the killing of baby girls because parents can only have one child and they want a boy...sad but true.

Also when there's only one child in a family that child often gets spoilt, this has led to lots of dangerously obese children or "little emperor's."

I don't think there is really a solution to the spreading of mankind, it's too late to stop it now save maybe genocide (or something else ending in "cide") and that is of course not an option.

The only other options are that everyone dies of starvation until the population reaches a stable level or, this is very far fetched, we move to another planet...but I really don't think that's going to happen

[rabid anarchist]

Ah i see.
I would advocate genocide, but it wont happen, and of course, what if it was one of my friends/family/etc.

People who have advocated that (that ive talked to) seem to think its ok so long as it doesnt affect them.

Although i once argued in its favour even if people i cared for were killed.

This leads to another question of who and how would people be chosen to die?

I guess chosen at random, but i dont think it would work that way. the people the Govt didnt want, or who they valued less (opposition members/supporters, trouble makers, criminals, etc) would be the 1st to go im sure.

I personally would resent the Govt making that choice for us anyway.

Also, how would they be killed? There are no humane methods i think. All the methods used as capital punsihment are not humane by any means i dont think.
Gas chambers, like in the holocaust? efficiently kill large numbers of people quickly. Probably the most likely solution.

I know this is slightly off topic, but please can we add this to the main debate? Or shall i make a new thread for it?

[PoofBird]

Originally posted by rabid anarchist
Ah i see.
I would advocate genocide, but it wont happen, and of course, what if it was one of my friends/family/etc.


are not humane by any means i dont think.
Gas chambers, like in the holocaust? efficiently kill large numbers of people quickly. Probably the most likely solution.
I know this is slightly off topic, but please can we add this to the main debate? Or shall i make a new thread for it?

say wha? You would advocate genocide, and want to debate on what the best way would be?

are you sick? :eek:

do you know what the word genocide means?
at all?

[William Wallace]

You're forgetting the whole basis of this. People must NOT BREED AT ALL. We must clean up our own messes, and eventually, the last people on earth will experience something like the garden of Eden. The last one out will be filled with bliss on seeing Earth return to its former splendor.

If people massively fall over and rot, the Earth would be in deeper trouble than before. Nuclear Reactors would go beserk, Tokamaks would explode, generally destroying Earth and creating a wasteland. As I said above, we must clean up our messes, then die naturally, of old age.

About that "Little Emperors" thing, just check out Love your kid? Discipline them. (maddox.xmission.com\beat.html)

[Fruiterian]

There are too many people in this world, and we don't have much to kill us off.

Except disease. Famine. Natural disasters.

We've become so technologically... good (horrid grammar, yes, I know, I just suck with words) with things that we are perpetuating our lives further. Our medical technology in particular is sophisticated, people who should die, everyday miracles, survive.

In a sense, we are immune to all but the most serious illness in developed parts of the world.

Think about babies that would die from genetic disorders, problems, everything, but were saved using medical technology.

Think about all the people who have had illness such as cancer, flus (a major problem at one point), heart diseases, that have survived.

Who is strong against illness and who is weak against it doesn't matter anymore. Most likely, they're going to survive if they can get quality medical care.

And our food supply: once again, in developed areas of the world, we take our food and water for granted. With the strict standards of health, and how much food there is, we take it for granted. We are concerned with nutrition more and more, other times it's good for taste and such. Whatever happened to surviving off what the land gave us? Now we pick up a can or packaged meat at the grocery and cook it ourselves.

We're overpopulated because we drove ourselves into overpopulation. And our overpopulation is destroying the world.

A limit to the amount of children that you can have is one way to solve this problem, but it's not the best. They have a similar law enacted in China, where there is a one child limit to each family. Norbington explained it all already, I don't have to do it again.

Once again, sorry if this sounds horribly naive. My 15th birthday is in four days, dammit.

edit // fixed a typo. ^^

[The Angry Elvis]

One word will solve our overpopulation problem:
FIRE

[PoofBird]

Fruiterian, you were not naive at all.

I say: migration to space.

we can't yet, but we will, eventually.

In the end, it is the only solution.
All other solutions are nice in theory but battle the two most important instincts in man: survival and procreation.
We don't want to be ill, we don't want to die, we want to eat, and we want our genes to spread.

No law or natural disaster can stop this.
We'll just have to leave the planet.

[rabid anarchist]

yes, i know what genocide means.

i think the definition is: The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

and im applying that to the whole world.

Why am I being sick?

Its a good idea in theory.
But i am too emotionally attached to people to want to risk their lives in a systematic wipeout to create a world with less people in it, instantly solving problems of overpopulation.

[PeePers]

Originally posted by PoofBird
do you know what the word genocide means?
at all?
i could go throw a dictionary link at you but i wont.
i agree with PB(at least if i interperted him ok)
Genocide is not advocatable
in no way
under no condition
never
not even with only little adolfs and Mao's in one ethnic group

plus: you ever been to a place in holland called "t gooi"?(houses as big as a small country)
the world isnt full
yet...
im not saying we need to over-populate our little, ickle and fragile planet; we could always go into space..
and go where no man has gone before
[/blatant star trek quote i believe]

[rabid anarchist]

I still think there are too many people in the world.

But i wasnt advocating it...

It was just a point.. Sorry if you and Poofbird took that wrongly.

Moving a large number of people into space isnt really an option yet. Might be soon, you never know. (depending on how soon you call soon)

I hope we take better care of that than we have here, but i somewhat doubt it..

[Smeagle]

Originally posted by Pinkerbell
Birth control costs about $15 for the pill, and I'm not sure about condoms,

You can actually get condoms completely free from any doctors, chemists, etc.

And yet some people just don't bother...

I really can't understand it.

[Norbington]

the world isnt full
yet...

let's all move to Canada

looooooads of space there

[Fruiterian]

B-b-but... we can be with the moose... and no one really lives in the Yukon and places like that...

[rabid anarchist]

ever thought there might be a reason why? ;)

[PeePers]

ever heard of almere buiten?

[PoofBird]

Originally posted by PeePers
ever heard of almere buiten?

:eek:

omg wtf anti-lol

[The Angry Elvis]

What is Almere Buiten?

[Smeagle]

It's Dutch for Great Britain, I think ;)

Anyway, we've deviated. This was such a good debate too.

Back on topic --->

[PeePers]

Originally posted by PoofBird
:eek:

omg wtf anti-lol
can you explain yourself
what is anti lol?

but smeeagle i right
back on topic
http://www.pierlala.nl/martijn/Backtopic.jpg

[William Wallace]

The Earth is already withering beneath our feet. The Challenger and Columbia incidents have proved that humanity is not yet prepared to enter space. Technology has not advanced that much yet. We must act here and now.

[rabid anarchist]

back to genocide theories it is then.. :p

poofbird. Why do you think me sick?

Well, the idea of the poll, dont breed is a good one. But people are always going to want children. I cant think of a truely practical idea that would work, probably becasue your never going to get everyone to agree on it.

[Fruiterian]

But think about the political climate of today: if we said that we were going to yank away your right to have children... or yank away medical care... or even start killing off people in droves, people aren't going to like it.

Space isn't going to work, as said earlier. It will be centuries, if not more, before we can enter space safely. Even then there will be disasters.

Though yanking away medical care would be a good thing, only the strong survive yada yada, some people are too self-obsessed with themselves, concerned with their own survival, than the survival of a race or a world.

Mass killings? See above.

And today's sex-saturated culture isn't helping either. Yes, if we all used condoms, had protected sex, thought things out a bit more we could probably start controlling the population a bit more. But there are people who promote having lots of kids. -_-

[Weeman]

If all the countries of the world stopped warring for a bit, then we could devote our capital to developing the space program. If it's practical while I'm still around then I'll be one of the first to go.

[PeePers]

we could also make christianity illegal
then africa might begin to work on birth control
because the church isnt exactly helping there

[PoofBird]

Originally posted by PeePers
we could also make christianity illegal


to be precise: catholicism.

to be even more precise: the Pope.

to be very very precise: the demented alzheimer pope

you Gooi people, you are all generalizing bastards, every single one of you.

Originally posted by Rabid Anarchist
poofbird. Why do you think me sick?

I thought the debate was a bit silly to begin with.
and of all the silly ideas, your idea was sticking out with sugar on top.

Your definition is pretty accurate.

I'm not accusing you of anything remotely resembling nazism or fascism. Absolutely not. I know you're not that serious about it. I know you're not advocating it.

It seemed to me, the way you wrote it down, you didn't fully understand the graveness of the words you used merely for the sake of arguement.
It seemed to me you needed a little kick in the right place to realize that.

It seems I was wrong about that. I'm sorry about that.

I still think you were pushing the joke (ie this thread) too far, and it wasn't funny.

Originally posted by Piepers
what is anti lol?

compare

Christ <-----> anti-christ
Freeze <------> anti-freeze
lol <-----> anti-lol

[Fruiterian]

Technically, I'm Catholic, but there is no way I'm sticking by the religion when I grow older. Religion will never be a big part of my life.

But Catholicism isn't the main problem. It's Christianity in general. It's one thing to believe, and you have a right to believe whatever the hell you want to. To be overzealous in these beliefs, to the point where you believe that what you believe is the correct belief and you have to convert everyone around you.

But... that's for the religious thread, that little tidbit there.

I'm pretty sure that the religious leaders are pushing for absistence until marriage.

Whatever.

But we do need to pour more money into research. The ocean has been called the next great frontier, but most of the ocean's quite deep, pressures are high and sometimes temperatures too. And our pollution and destruction stemming from overpopulation has reached down there too.

Although we may never reach the stars in our lifetimes, it would be a very good idea to begin researching it, to put the building blocks in place for future generations.

After all, our ancestors messed quite a few things up. It's up to us to fix it.

[Mexican Pie]

I saw a very interesting program the other day. It was about the Urban Sprawl and over population in Japan. There is a strong proposition in motion to build a mile high (or at least very tall) tower. It could fit up to 20 or more blocks of people, or was it 120 blocks? I'm not really sure, but it was heaps more efficient than Urban Sprawl. It would provide heaps of blocks of forests and parks, and the Tower could even be classed as a city in a city. They even have plans to build 3 towers in a triangle formation, and have HUGE walkways connecting to the center of the triangle, making a real City.

Many problems arise, though. Cost, disasters, etc. But frankly, I find these problems insignificant with weighing in the good and the bad effects.

Well, there are many things that we can do, but people wouldn't want to do it. However, Mass Genocide is one option to provide Humanities future, but it is highly unlikely.

It's all about achieving greater good through unthinkable evil.

The 3 biggest mistakes (just counting the bad effects, not the good effects... if any) that humanity has made are:

1.The Industrial Age- basically everything went WAY down hill at the beginning of 1900. War, Racism, Genocide, you name it- the biggest atrocities have been made in here.

2.The discovery of Nuclear Power, including bombs, the value of weapons grade plutonium, Uranium etc, which made people use any means of power to get these and get exceedingly rich or get more power. Hiroshima killed more than 400,000 people, during the blast and after math of radiation poisoning. Or was it 750,000? I know that it was ALOT of people.

3.Globalism, milking countries for their money to get it taken from Global Industries, making their home country richer (mainly the USA, Europe... don't know if China is classed as one... tell me if any more countries can be classed as these- Australia is NOT a huge one)

What does this have to do with the topic? Many things... just think about what it has to do with the topic, and post it here.

[William Wallace]

That's not the point. Just using up the earth's resources is what's killing our planet.

[Mexican Pie]

So it's either the case of filling up the earth with people and not using resources, or delaying the enivatble by strategically using our resources to help provide a positive effect to the planet, while finding alternate means of energy and possibly a home on a different planet by possibly terraforming Mars.

Either way, they both have their downsides.

[rabid anarchist]

So far the most efficient idea has been genocide.

Is there any concievable way to stop people having kids?

Maybe we should sterilize everryone from birth.

[William Wallace]

The best thing to do is brute force. Abortions should be done instantly to pregnant mothers, a 100,000,000 quid fine should be the penalty for shagging, and a 100,000 fine for semen insertion. Pregnant women should be fined for 100,000.

When Money talks, EVERYBODY listens. :nana: :twisted:

[rabid anarchist]

ill go along with the instant abortion thing.

But it would be cheaper, easier and more popular to just sterilise everyone at birth secretly..

:)

[dave the pieman]

we not need a predator to kill us we do that our selfs

[PoofBird]

Originally posted by dave the pieman
we not need a predator to kill us we do that our selfs

you resurrected a 8 month old thread to say that?

please do not do this again